New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Is inflation impacting Nationals Attendance?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Is inflation impacting Nationals Attendance?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 1213141516 24>
Author
CT249 View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 08 Jul 06
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 399
Post Options Post Options   Quote CT249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Is inflation impacting Nationals Attendance?
    Posted: 22 Jul 22 at 10:37am
One thing though, Fab, is that while it's been eons, I was told many years ago by a British 470 silver medallist that the 470's reputation for going soft was very much exaggerated, perhaps like the claims that Laser sails only last for one regatta.

The only time I did a 470 nationals was with a skipper who wasn't a bad sailor (2nd or 3rd in the Youth Worlds on 420s, I think) and we got whipped because the other guys were better at 470 sailing, not because our boat was soft. Smile


Edited by CT249 - 22 Jul 22 at 10:39am
Back to Top
CT249 View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 08 Jul 06
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 399
Post Options Post Options   Quote CT249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 22 at 10:33am
Yes, as far as the Laser's Olympic status goes, around here the 18-35 year olds vanished almost completely when it went Olympic, and that's easy to see by looking at old class records that showed the age of the sailors. 

A chap I sailed with a tiny bit got to be 3rd in the Open Worlds with a full-on amateur effort (ie a huge amount of sailing after work and then weeks of full-time sailing before major titles) and dropped out straight away when it went Olympic because he knew that he could either go full time or be swamped by the full timers. 

Meanwhile, down here the Finn fleets are bigger than they have been since the class was created, I think, as people move into them now that they no longer have to race full time sailors.

Down here we have plenty of great water for 49ers and Nacra 17s but I don't think there's ever been a consistent club fleet of 49ers in the entire continent, and there's certainly no fleet of N17s. 

It's a great point about the pros being different when they change outside their pro classes. Some of the classes I sail have been used by pros for a change of scene between Olympics, and they are certainly far more mortal (but still incredibly good) when they don't have the advantage of being in a class they sail 9-5.  It's really interesting to watch them tackle a new class or type of sailing. They still tend to be pretty fun in both situations apart from the fact that they are damn hard to keep up with downwind!

The Nacra is pretty bizarre. The class reports on the WS website show that only 16 were sold in 2020 and 12 were sold in 2021. In 2021 the nation with the biggest representation in the class had an incredibly low 7 boats. No wonder there were press reports that WS was considering dumping it.

Meanwhile the Flying Phantom doesn't seem to have updated its Facebook since March 2020 (much less any other news from The Future Of Sailing) and there seems to be nothing at all happening with them apart from second-hand boats being sold.

Strange indeed, when we have been told so often that foils are the future.
Back to Top
fab100 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 15 Mar 11
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1005
Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 22 at 10:30am
Originally posted by Mozzy

Originally posted by fab100

Originally posted by Mozzy

I mean, if Olympic status really helps a class, then where are the big attendances for the 49er, Nacra and 470? 

money? You can buy an ILCA for £8k sail it for a year or 3 then sell it for half that. A Mackay 470 is around 3 times that to buy, it lasts a year at best, after which the hull’s a banana fit only for the bin, in racing terms at least. Stupid construction rules insisting on polyester only “to keep cost down”. At least a 505, for 470 money, uses decent materials and is thereby reasonably competitive for years not months. 

Cats may be even worse, with the lifecycle longevity of a flying ant, it seems to me. There’s always a fundamental revision or new, better cat class along in a minute. In a cat you pay no attention to a 5 degree shift. In an ILCA miss it and lose several places. 


Then you factor in the relative decline of double-handers. 

Be interesting though to see how the Finn does attracting new blood now its no longer olympic, but surely not as well as it used to. 

All in all, the ILCA seems to hit all the sweet spots and it can only be good news that Rastegar is out of the equation too.

Maybe cost. 

But, they're all two person boats so harsh to compare to a single hander. Plus you get a fair more boat for your buck, so I am not sure how much cost is a factor. Probably better comparing the cost of a merlin to a 470, a foiling phantom to the Nacra and an 800 to the 49er. 

49er, Nacra and even to an extent the 470 are limited on venues where you can sail which further hampers amateur involvement. So there may be an element of this which certainly doesn't affect the laser.

But mostly I think people don't sail these classes because there will be ~10 boats who sailing full time and life is structured around sailing. Plus they're pretty good anyways. And those same boats add little social value* as they have to act professional. Not a great way to build a domestic fleet. Yet, despite this, the laser seems to get good turnouts. But I would struggle to say they really benefit from being an Olympic class (in the full rig). 

*full time sailors outside their professional bot are a lot more fun. But they're also easier to beat and are essentially on holiday. 

All of the 95 ILCA4s at the Nats and most of the 6s are sailed by under 21s - those boats and the event expenses will have been paid for by the bank-of-mum-and-dad. ILCA is more competition, better racing and lots cheaper (notwithstanding lots of 'em will also have bought a rib to support little Johny/Jane). And it's what Sir Ben made his name in. What's not to like. Apart from the ruder if you are Jimbo TT.
Back to Top
turnturtle View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 05 Dec 14
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2538
Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 22 at 10:00am
Originally posted by fab100

And it needs to crazy, crazy windy before my Laser takes preference to the 100 for a hoon. 

I mean, obvs! Nice rakish comment btw
Back to Top
Mozzy View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 21 Apr 20
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 209
Post Options Post Options   Quote Mozzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 22 at 9:39am
Originally posted by fab100

Originally posted by Mozzy

I mean, if Olympic status really helps a class, then where are the big attendances for the 49er, Nacra and 470? 

money? You can buy an ILCA for £8k sail it for a year or 3 then sell it for half that. A Mackay 470 is around 3 times that to buy, it lasts a year at best, after which the hull’s a banana fit only for the bin, in racing terms at least. Stupid construction rules insisting on polyester only “to keep cost down”. At least a 505, for 470 money, uses decent materials and is thereby reasonably competitive for years not months. 

Cats may be even worse, with the lifecycle longevity of a flying ant, it seems to me. There’s always a fundamental revision or new, better cat class along in a minute. In a cat you pay no attention to a 5 degree shift. In an ILCA miss it and lose several places. 


Then you factor in the relative decline of double-handers. 

Be interesting though to see how the Finn does attracting new blood now its no longer olympic, but surely not as well as it used to. 

All in all, the ILCA seems to hit all the sweet spots and it can only be good news that Rastegar is out of the equation too.

Maybe cost. 

But, they're all two person boats so harsh to compare to a single hander. Plus you get a fair more boat for your buck, so I am not sure how much cost is a factor. Probably better comparing the cost of a merlin to a 470, a foiling phantom to the Nacra and an 800 to the 49er. 

49er, Nacra and even to an extent the 470 are limited on venues where you can sail which further hampers amateur involvement. So there may be an element of this which certainly doesn't affect the laser.

But mostly I think people don't sail these classes because there will be ~10 boats who sailing full time and life is structured around sailing. Plus they're pretty good anyways. And those same boats add little social value* as they have to act professional. Not a great way to build a domestic fleet. Yet, despite this, the laser seems to get good turnouts. But I would struggle to say they really benefit from being an Olympic class (in the full rig). 

*full time sailors outside their professional bot are a lot more fun. But they're also easier to beat and are essentially on holiday. 
Back to Top
fab100 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 15 Mar 11
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1005
Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 22 at 9:38am
Originally posted by turnturtle

if only they changed the damned rudder ;-)  I actually quite enjoyed the sailing experience of the Rooster 8.1 rig... I know my tastes can be as sophisticated as a Carlsberg Top in a plastic beaker, but a Rooster 8.1 and Fred-shed conversion of an MPS rudder and stock... wouldn't be a bad boat for just hooning around on.

but the side view line-drawings would not look so cool and rakish (geddit) if the rudder angle was not the same as the daggerboard’s   Stern Smile

And it needs to crazy, crazy windy before my Laser takes preference to the 100 for a hoon. But I did the ILCA Masters Inlands last autumn, first for 12 years. It was light but I did actually enjoy the racing, made more fun by being in the mix with my old knocker.
Back to Top
turnturtle View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 05 Dec 14
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2538
Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 22 at 9:08am
if only they changed the damned rudder ;-)  I actually quite enjoyed the sailing experience of the Rooster 8.1 rig... I know my tastes can be as sophisticated as a Carlsberg Top in a plastic beaker, but a Rooster 8.1 and Fred-shed conversion of an MPS rudder and stock... wouldn't be a bad boat for just hooning around on.
Back to Top
fab100 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 15 Mar 11
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1005
Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 22 at 9:04am
Originally posted by Mozzy

I mean, if Olympic status really helps a class, then where are the big attendances for the 49er, Nacra and 470? 

money? You can buy an ILCA for £8k sail it for a year or 3 then sell it for half that. A Mackay 470 is around 3 times that to buy, it lasts a year at best, after which the hull’s a banana fit only for the bin, in racing terms at least. Stupid construction rules insisting on polyester only “to keep cost down”. At least a 505, for 470 money, uses decent materials and is thereby reasonably competitive for years not months. 

Cats may be even worse, with the lifecycle longevity of a flying ant, it seems to me. There’s always a fundamental revision or new, better cat class along in a minute. In a cat you pay no attention to a 5 degree shift. In an ILCA miss it and lose several places. 


Then you factor in the relative decline of double-handers. 

Be interesting though to see how the Finn does attracting new blood now its no longer olympic, but surely not as well as it used to. 

All in all, the ILCA seems to hit all the sweet spots and it can only be good news that Rastegar is out of the equation too.


Edited by fab100 - 22 Jul 22 at 9:06am
Back to Top
Grumpycat View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 29 Sep 20
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 497
Post Options Post Options   Quote Grumpycat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 22 at 8:50am
Originally posted by Demelza

Originally posted by Grumpycat

[QUOTE=turnturtle]Actually I was just being literal - I heard it wasn’t as crazy hot as earlier this week, but I also hoped you’d get a puff or two to make the most of it

It was a little warm Monday and Tuesday  LOL.
But winds on Sunday and Wednesday evening  were good 13mph base  gusting to 22mph and the temperature was in the mid 20s( plus the wind didn’t even die of on the Wednesday  Smile) .
Perfect sailing conditions for me and the cold white wine afterwards was good too Wink
[/

A pointless self centred post of no interest to anyone.

Thanks for your input . Have a nice day  Smile Smile
Back to Top
turnturtle View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 05 Dec 14
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2538
Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 22 at 8:49am
Originally posted by Demelza

Originally posted by Grumpycat

[QUOTE=turnturtle]Actually I was just being literal - I heard it wasn’t as crazy hot as earlier this week, but I also hoped you’d get a puff or two to make the most of it

It was a little warm Monday and Tuesday  LOL.
But winds on Sunday and Wednesday evening  were good 13mph base  gusting to 22mph and the temperature was in the mid 20s( plus the wind didn’t even die of on the Wednesday  Smile) .
Perfect sailing conditions for me and the cold white wine afterwards was good too Wink
[/

A pointless self centred post of no interest to anyone.


wrong, bravo Duncan; I'm glad you enjoyed it

Demelza - it's a chat forum mate, chill your boots; or at least empty the piss out of them before you walk into the wet bar.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 1213141516 24>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy