Square tops

My only knowledge of north sails is very limited as it only  comes from the British moth class and now  the D-zero. Not overly impressed considering the price premium over other brands. 

Originally posted by Cirrus SMODS .... We've surely covered this type of organisation many times in recent years.  Yes - poorly run by the manufacturer and/or in league with a lacklustre class association it can work against the interests of the  owners.  However there are also examples where 'strong' or even just 'democratic' CA's  with control of the designs have nevertheless managed to pull down otherwise thriving classes in hindsight through naivety or just simple poor management.  Change, and as often the need to change, over time can trip up the most well meaning....  Ask owners what they want and you do not always get answers that automatically maintain  the class.   If the manufacturer cannot make a crust for whatever reason, including CA pressure, long term classes do tend to die.  In my experience those that thrive over time have proactive owners and proactive builders under any form of structure.  It is only an idiot builder who does not take into account the wishes or advice of the owners - and it matters not a jot under what formal structures exist.  Equally  if owners discount the input of the builder (usually or often the design rights holders) who must make a working profit and has to deal with such issues as 'warranty' and product liability it does not matter what CA's  might vote for or against.   And if you really still do not like even the concept of the modern SMOD then you still have plenty of choice out there...  Just be glad that you can choose.

SMODS .... We've surely covered this type of organisation many times in recent years.  Yes - poorly run by the manufacturer and/or in league with a lacklustre class association it can work against the interests of the  owners.  However there are also examples where 'strong' or even just 'democratic' CA's  with control of the designs have nevertheless managed to pull down otherwise thriving classes in hindsight through naivety or just simple poor management.  Change, and as often the need to change, over time can trip up the most well meaning....  Ask owners what they want and you do not always get answers that automatically maintain  the class.   If the manufacturer cannot make a crust for whatever reason, including CA pressure, long term classes do tend to die.  In my experience those that thrive over time have proactive owners and proactive builders under any form of structure.  It is only an idiot builder who does not take into account the wishes or advice of the owners - and it matters not a jot under what formal structures exist.  Equally  if owners discount the input of the builder (usually or often the design rights holders) who must make a working profit and has to deal with such issues as 'warranty' and product liability it does not matter what CA's  might vote for or against.   And if you really still do not like even the concept of the modern SMOD then you still have plenty of choice out there...  Just be glad that you can choose.       


Edited by Cirrus - 13 Jun 22 at 8:51am

Originally posted by NickA Reckons the ultimate sail design is still a carefully shaped pin head, but that it doesn't work so well with carbon masts .. This is annoying as my new boat has a carbon mast but a very pointy main sail ... worst of both worlds?

Don't forget that was Julian's thinking 5 years ago. I'm not sure to what extent he'd agree with all of that now. Ultimately though what matters most is how well the sail and the mast are matched. A random sail on a random mast is rarely going to work well. If the sail has been cut to match the mast then it should work a whole load better. And don't forget Julian's comparison was with highly developed glass topmasts. A tin mast is another matter, because there are physical limits on what you can do with taper and bend and still have the thing stay up.
There's some reasonable empirical evidence that every class that has adopted carbon sticks has seen a significant performance increase. Such increases are often difficult to spot within a class for the simple reason that if one boat is 5% faster than another its astonishing boat speed, but if one crew is 5% faster than the other that's about the difference between top quarter and top half of the fleet.