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Laser with a carbon mast??
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JimC View Drop Down
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    Posted: 21 Apr 22 at 11:37am
Originally posted by seasailor

it's that it costs upwards of £900 which, coupled with the cost of a carbon/composite top section, means that a Laser Radial mast costs some £1,500 quid, which is more than my boat is worth!

There's a calculation you have to make isn't there? If you regularly bend spars and have to replace them then it doesn't matter what your boat is worth, its still going to pay you to invest in the plastic spars - and in this case arguably it really is an investment because it would save money down the line. OTOH if you've never bent a spar in your life and don't see yourself starting now then there would be no more point in buying a new plastic spar then a new tin one.
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eric_c View Drop Down
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Posts: 382 		Post Options Post Options   Quote eric_c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 22 at 1:01pm
£500+ for a composite spar is perhaps value added to the boat.
Plus it saves £100 for a replica spar every couple of years for some people, and possibly £100 for a sail repair and maybe even stops an expensive weekend being ruined by predictable gear falure.
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getafix View Drop Down
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Posts: 2143 		Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 22 at 9:51am
Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by getafix

As an ex-L*ser sailor who would never go back, I do find it still highly amusing that through all the tortuous tussling and grumpily accepted updates "they" have fixed the crappy mast, sail (ish) and controls and still not gotten rid of that total sh1tb0x which is the rudder .... it would be a far more pleasant experience to sail if you could steer properly, particularly in stronger winds

this.... in fact, there was a time when I considered buying an MPS rudder and stock and converting it for use on a Rooster 8.1 setup for club racing.  It wouldn't have been a bad boat, for a fraction of the cost of something a lot nicer.

the whole rudder thing is so funny as a ex-owner and sailor of this class, it is, IMO, by the far the crappest element of the boat (after the loopy controls but before the bendy spars and stretchy sails) and yet it's been kept, unchanged, pretty much since the early days.  The first L*ser I sailed had wooden tiller, no UJ, a swivel jammer and wooden grab rails in the cockpit and the old bailer (so that dates me) but it still had that exact same profile, raked back, too-small rudder blade and stock as you get today.  I'm all for OD and control but keeping something bad for 30+ years which is so easily and relatively cheaply replaced, baffles me.
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eric_c View Drop Down
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Posts: 382 		Post Options Post Options   Quote eric_c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 22 at 10:34am
A lot of people don't seem to understand that the 'rudder' on a Laser isn't there to steer the boat, it's there to let you know you're not keeping the boat flat enough.
Fitting a 'better' rudder would make it much easier to sail the boat badly and slowly.
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 22 at 10:36am
I've said before that the rudder could be significantly improved by setting the leading edge vertical.
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 22 at 12:29pm
Don't forget the main sheet catching under the corners, the vertical sides of the cockpit.
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tink View Drop Down
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Posts: 789 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 22 at 9:00pm
Originally posted by getafix

As an ex-L*ser sailor who would never go back, I do find it still highly amusing that through all the tortuous tussling and grumpily accepted updates "they" have fixed the crappy mast, sail (ish) and controls and still not gotten rid of that total sh1tb0x which is the rudder .... it would be a far more pleasant experience to sail if you could steer properly, particularly in stronger winds

The mistake many make, depending on their weight is thinking they are 20 fit enough to sail  full rig. The Radial / ILCA 6 is an awesome boat for the sub 75kg sailor. Fraction of the cost of an Aero, Solo etc and including regular sail renewal ownership still low, the changes in design have been minimal over the history of the class. I can go to an event within a days drive at least every two weeks in the season. Fantastic quality training frequently available plus more training media most or classes combined. If you’re having issues with handling a Laser then you definitely need to sailing Laser, if you are finding the rudder too small you’re doing something wrong. It’s not the boat it’s the nut on the tiller. As for carbon top mast, when I bend my alloy one I’ll get one still 1000s still in the bank compared to the alternative classes. I could, but won’t sell mine tomorrow and including two new sails and a few other bits cost less the £50 an month over two year 
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Posts: 353 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Riv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 22 at 9:48pm
I'm looking after 4 club Lasers, the thing I want for them would be aluminium extrusion foils like our Fevas, Picos and Bugs. This would cut the maintenance down and make them more viable.
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Posts: 497 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Grumpycat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 22 at 6:17am
Originally posted by tink

Originally posted by getafix

As an ex-L*ser sailor who would never go back, I do find it still highly amusing that through all the tortuous tussling and grumpily accepted updates "they" have fixed the crappy mast, sail (ish) and controls and still not gotten rid of that total sh1tb0x which is the rudder .... it would be a far more pleasant experience to sail if you could steer properly, particularly in stronger winds

The mistake many make, depending on their weight is thinking they are 20 fit enough to sail  full rig. The Radial / ILCA 6 is an awesome boat for the sub 75kg sailor. Fraction of the cost of an Aero, Solo etc and including regular sail renewal ownership still low, the changes in design have been minimal over the history of the class. I can go to an event within a days drive at least every two weeks in the season. Fantastic quality training frequently available plus more training media most or classes combined. If you’re having issues with handling a Laser then you definitely need to sailing Laser, if you are finding the rudder too small you’re doing something wrong. It’s not the boat it’s the nut on the tiller. As for carbon top mast, when I bend my alloy one I’ll get one still 1000s still in the bank compared to the alternative classes. I could, but won’t sell mine tomorrow and including two new sails and a few other bits cost less the £50 an month over two year 
I speak as a man that sailed a Laser and Laser Radial for over 20 years . 
The Laser is many things ,it has great class racing , a good class association, and is stunning value for money second hand. BUT it’s not a awesome boat , the world has moved on and it hasn’t  enough.  It’s a 1960s Mini Cooper in a 2022 world . Yes it’s now fitted with air con and it’s fitted with a better radio, but no one’s looked at changing the engine, steering or brakes  LOL Smile
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tink View Drop Down
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Posts: 789 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 22 at 6:33am
Originally posted by Grumpycat

Originally posted by tink

Originally posted by getafix

As an ex-L*ser sailor who would never go back, I do find it still highly amusing that through all the tortuous tussling and grumpily accepted updates "they" have fixed the crappy mast, sail (ish) and controls and still not gotten rid of that total sh1tb0x which is the rudder .... it would be a far more pleasant experience to sail if you could steer properly, particularly in stronger winds

The mistake many make, depending on their weight is thinking they are 20 fit enough to sail  full rig. The Radial / ILCA 6 is an awesome boat for the sub 75kg sailor. Fraction of the cost of an Aero, Solo etc and including regular sail renewal ownership still low, the changes in design have been minimal over the history of the class. I can go to an event within a days drive at least every two weeks in the season. Fantastic quality training frequently available plus more training media most or classes combined. If you’re having issues with handling a Laser then you definitely need to sailing Laser, if you are finding the rudder too small you’re doing something wrong. It’s not the boat it’s the nut on the tiller. As for carbon top mast, when I bend my alloy one I’ll get one still 1000s still in the bank compared to the alternative classes. I could, but won’t sell mine tomorrow and including two new sails and a few other bits cost less the £50 an month over two year 
I speak as a man that sailed a Laser and Laser Radial for over 20 years . 
The Laser is many things ,it has great class racing , a good class association, and is stunning value for money second hand. BUT it’s not a awesome boat , the world has moved on and it hasn’t  enough.  It’s a 1960s Mini Cooper in a 2022 world . Yes it’s now fitted with air con and it’s fitted with a better radio, but no one’s looked at changing the engine, steering or brakes  LOL Smile

Does that matter, speed comes from length it has that vs Solo, Solution, Streaker. It’s comfy down wind, no kneeling vs Aero, Blaze, Super Nova. Easy to right and recover vs Solo, OK. Yes the mast and sail are from the 60s  but it’s a small price to pay for the long list of advantages. Steering is fine, like all dinghies windward heel to head up leeward heel to bear away with a wiggly thing at the back to aid when needed 
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