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Laser with a carbon mast??

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boatshed View Drop Down
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    Posted: 19 Apr 22 at 4:54pm
Originally posted by Grumpycat


Originally posted by boatshed

Originally posted by Grumpycat




I think you will find it’s only the top section that’s a carbon/ glass composite with the full rig/ILCA 7. The lower section and the boom is still aliminium . Not sure about the radial/ILCA 6 though. Think they have or are planning to a carbon/glass bottom section . 
Think the top section has been class legal for a couple of years. 
Were you sailing at Draycote today ? , the pursuit race looked like fun . My wife and I thought the 505 was going to win today .  Smile





Yes, first sail in 2 years. Got badly caught out on the first long beat going right hoping for a header off the far shore…. Whilst the wind unceasingly decided to swing south and lift the boats going left. The stuff one forgets.

The 505 was sailed very well and deserved their finish position. That boat can hang out a surprisingly large amount of sail area and fly along the very many downwind legs.

The top results included a wide variety of boats incl a Streaker, 505, Laser, supernova and a Fifteen. Thus proving, handicap racing works a treat!

That were you sailing ? We watched all the starts from the solos onwards. It was a lovely day for a sail, we were very jealous even though we were still recovering from sailing on Sunday  LOL.
As a side issue all power to the child in the optimist, they stuck it out for the whole race. They must have been out there for about 2 hours . 


Solo. Think I ended up 13th. I was buried after the first beat and a leg or more behind the other So Slows. Got a bit of a wiggle on and made up some ground. Never sailed a Solo before,so, that was a decent first outing. The Opi helm had perseverance! I thought the Fevas would have done better but I guess the down wind legs were too broad. The Laser that won had a cracking first beat and got away but the top places were pretty close
Steve
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Grumpycat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 22 at 4:36pm
Originally posted by boatshed

Originally posted by Grumpycat




I think you will find it’s only the top section that’s a carbon/ glass composite with the full rig/ILCA 7. The lower section and the boom is still aliminium . Not sure about the radial/ILCA 6 though. Think they have or are planning to a carbon/glass bottom section . 
Think the top section has been class legal for a couple of years. 
Were you sailing at Draycote today ? , the pursuit race looked like fun . My wife and I thought the 505 was going to win today .  Smile





Yes, first sail in 2 years. Got badly caught out on the first long beat going right hoping for a header off the far shore…. Whilst the wind unceasingly decided to swing south and lift the boats going left. The stuff one forgets.

The 505 was sailed very well and deserved their finish position. That boat can hang out a surprisingly large amount of sail area and fly along the very many downwind legs.

The top results included a wide variety of boats incl a Streaker, 505, Laser, supernova and a Fifteen. Thus proving, handicap racing works a treat!

That were you sailing ? We watched all the starts from the solos onwards. It was a lovely day for a sail, we were very jealous even though we were still recovering from sailing on Sunday  LOL.
As a side issue all power to the child in the optimist, they stuck it out for the whole race. They must have been out there for about 2 hours . 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Grumpycat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 22 at 4:23pm
Originally posted by Paramedic

Originally posted by Grumpycat

To put this into prospective. The Supernova changed to a epoxy build a few year ago and the minimum weight dropped from about 62kg to 50kg. Did it’s handicap get harder ? No, it got slightly easier because all that happened was it attracted a lot of slow sailors to the class .
Also I  don’t remember any of the normal suspects on here calling the Supernova a bandit when this happened at the time .  Smile

I may not be a "usual suspect" but i'm sure ive commented that the newer Supernovas are a fairly massive bandit as soon as the course in any way favours a singlehander. IE relative to similar classes they seem to have a very favourable handicap.

You are definitely not a ‘ usual suspect ‘ .  Tongue Unlike myself  who is definitely thought of as one, by some members of this forum  LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Quote boatshed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 22 at 4:00pm
Originally posted by Grumpycat




I think you will find it’s only the top section that’s a carbon/ glass composite with the full rig/ILCA 7. The lower section and the boom is still aliminium . Not sure about the radial/ILCA 6 though. Think they have or are planning to a carbon/glass bottom section . 
Think the top section has been class legal for a couple of years. 
Were you sailing at Draycote today ? , the pursuit race looked like fun . My wife and I thought the 505 was going to win today .  Smile





Yes, first sail in 2 years. Got badly caught out on the first long beat going right hoping for a header off the far shore…. Whilst the wind unceasingly decided to swing south and lift the boats going left. The stuff one forgets.

The 505 was sailed very well and deserved their finish position. That boat can hang out a surprisingly large amount of sail area and fly along the very many downwind legs.

The top results included a wide variety of boats incl a Streaker, 505, Laser, supernova and a Fifteen. Thus proving, handicap racing works a treat!
Steve
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Paramedic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 22 at 3:33pm
Originally posted by Grumpycat

To put this into prospective. The Supernova changed to a epoxy build a few year ago and the minimum weight dropped from about 62kg to 50kg. Did it’s handicap get harder ? No, it got slightly easier because all that happened was it attracted a lot of slow sailors to the class .
Also I  don’t remember any of the normal suspects on here calling the Supernova a bandit when this happened at the time .  Smile

I may not be a "usual suspect" but i'm sure ive commented that the newer Supernovas are a fairly massive bandit as soon as the course in any way favours a singlehander. IE relative to similar classes they seem to have a very favourable handicap.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 22 at 2:25pm
if helps keep insurance premiums down, then it's progress... personally I always felt awkward claiming for a top section, it definitely hovers in the 'known running cost' area of general maintenance, of which Laser sailors are spared a fair amount compared to a lot of classes.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 22 at 1:59pm
Originally posted by boatshed

Thks. Kafkaesque. Did the PY number decrease to reflect a better mast?

Depends what you regard as better. Breaks less is definitely an improvement, but will have no effect on handicaps since DNFs are excluded from the calculations. I think the Laser spars are unique or nearly so in being especially designed to negate the performance advantages normally associated with carbon spars.

As to separate handicaps for Laser branded boats and ILCA branded boats, that would depend on clubs reporting the results separately, which I rather doubt will happen.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Grumpycat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 22 at 1:29pm
Originally posted by boatshed

Originally posted by 423zero

No, number is slower year on year.


Oh. Must be the only class that adopted a carbon mast and went slower. Never mind, it was just my surprise at seeing carbon sticks on a Laser. I’ve not really sailed for two years, which explains a lot

It’s only the top section and it is designed to replicate the same mast bend so the only real difference is the the fact it weighs a bit lighter ( and before a ILCA sailor comes on and says it weighs the same as the old ali section . This was confirmed to me in writing by the Australian manufacturer  Smile )

To put this into prospective. The Supernova changed to a epoxy build a few year ago and the minimum weight dropped from about 62kg to 50kg. Did it’s handicap get harder ? No, it got slightly easier because all that happened was it attracted a lot of slow sailors to the class .
Also I  don’t remember any of the normal suspects on here calling the Supernova a bandit when this happened at the time .  Smile


Edited by Grumpycat - 19 Apr 22 at 2:14pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote GybeFunny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 22 at 1:12pm
Originally posted by 423zero

Does anyone know how iGRF keeps dropping random posts in, several occasions now I've noticed a post appear back in time? I can only guess that he puts a post in, clicks post options and then leaves it open, but, only guessing.

I believe his posts are first vetted by someone in charge of this forum before appearing for all of us to view. I get the emails that notify me of replies and you can see in his posts it says 'Verified by: xxx'.
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fab100 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 22 at 12:44pm
Originally posted by boatshed

Originally posted by 423zero

No, number is slower year on year.


Oh. Must be the only class that adopted a carbon mast and went slower. Never mind, it was just my surprise at seeing carbon sticks on a Laser. I’ve not really sailed for two years, which explains a lot


Witty comment

The weight, bending characteristics and CoG are supposed to be the same as the tin one. As has been said above, the change is about robustness and longevity. Hence performance of the boat should be unchanged. The PY returns of the sailors sailing Lasers/ILCAs in handicap races suggest those people were performing relatively less well. But given the last PY update was 2021 based on results from the preceding year, I doubt a statistically significant number of those boats had a composite top section costing £550. I’d wager more were sailing with damage-induced pre-bent (aka slow) tin top sections than composite ones.

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