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eric_c View Drop Down
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Posts: 382 		Post Options Post Options   Quote eric_c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Lasers
    Posted: 02 Feb 22 at 2:32pm
Since '78, the RPI has gone from 200 to 1200, but beer has gone from 30p a pint to about 4 quid? I don't know what my Dad earned in '78 but a new Laser was not something even contemplated.Only new boat in our family was a GRP kayak for my younger sister, which I think she still has. Doubt a LLPE hull will last 40 years somehow. Much as I dislike many features of the Laser, many people have attempted to build better boats for less money and produced things which are IMHO mostly worse. In the late 70s, wetsuits were still a luxury for many inland sailors, shorts and a 'waterproof' overall with a beer towel on the backside was the norm.
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 22 at 2:00pm
Originally posted by eric_c


Unfortunately a lot of reviews say Gul has gone downhill in terms of customer service having been taken over? .


Gul sadly is no more, it's just used by is it Mike Ashley Sport Direct? Whatever, just badge marketing for cheap Chinese products, which doesn't really matter in the plastic goat boat market they're not real things in terms of performance, just leisure pastime items.

A sad end to a once good Brit Brand, ironic, I remember selling their wetsuits for £150 quid at the London Boat show in 1978-9 as we were switching Racing Sailboats over to London Windsurfing Centre.

So the wetsuit was 150 quid, a Laser was around 600 quid then and you can still buy a wetsuit for that sort of money, yet the Laser? Bringing us nicely back on topic.

Edited by iGRF - 02 Feb 22 at 2:01pm
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 22 at 1:21pm
That's a good deal.
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eric_c View Drop Down
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Posts: 382 		Post Options Post Options   Quote eric_c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 22 at 12:58pm
Originally posted by 423zero

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Two-Person-Kayak-New-2-man-sit-on-top-kayak-with-seats-and-paddles-/115227591714?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0


Thanks for that. I spotted the 'Gul' logo and searched for reviews online. I had no idea they were in the plastic kayak game. Found the same thing for £350 or so at Gul's 'outlet'. Seems more like it! So I've ordered one.Only £6 for delivery too. Unfortunately a lot of reviews say Gul has gone downhill in terms of customer service having been taken over? The website doesn't make it clear whether paddles are included which is kind of a sign that whoever did the web page isn't a boating person. Ordred a cheap wetsuit whie I was at it.
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eric_c View Drop Down
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Posts: 382 		Post Options Post Options   Quote eric_c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 22 at 12:44pm
Originally posted by 423zero

I have got the 'Mojito' well made French sit on top, OK for off the beach stuff, long distance, no way, it doesn't glide, the second you stop paddling, it's has though you are trailing a net.
  These things mostly have compromised hull designs, but the Mojito is very short, so you're up against 'hull speed' and wave making. I hired a 2 person sit on and we managed to cover a reasonable mount of ground in an hour. A stable kayak for beginners is never going to be like a long thin expert's kayak. Doesn't worry me, we need the exercise!
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 22 at 1:30pm
I have got the 'Mojito' well made French sit on top, OK for off the beach stuff, long distance, no way, it doesn't glide, the second you stop paddling, it's has though you are trailing a net.
Robert
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 22 at 1:05pm
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Two-Person-Kayak-New-2-man-sit-on-top-kayak-with-seats-and-paddles-/115227591714?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0
Robert
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 22 at 12:20pm
Originally posted by eric_c


. If you can actually contribute anything regarding cheap things that float, I'm in the market for a two person sit on kayak. Must be a fair market for those, but at £600 upwards for a rotomoulding, they look poor value to me. Used ones even worse value with abrasions and UV damage.


Regretably no longer, my days of kayaks are thankfully well and truly behind me, if you can find a 2nd hand Point 65 'Tequila' I think it was called, they were fair value when I was distributing them, and have the bonus of conversion from single to double hander, but I guess like everything else of late they're exploring astronomy in pricing these days.
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eric_c View Drop Down
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Posts: 382 		Post Options Post Options   Quote eric_c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 22 at 11:03am
Originally posted by iGRF

Originally posted by eric_c


You try building them for significantly less]


Not that difficult if production were taken offshore, bear in mind I was quickly prevented from importing Laser sails by your little industry 'cartel', landing them here for $25.0 US, not so long ago, and those hulls,no more than $300 a pop, maximum, the rest of the bits? $50.00 all you need are sensible MOQ's (minimum order quantitys) probably as low as 1-200 pcs.

Fact is y'all have all been soaked for years by probably the biggest margin product in the business, those moulds must have been homologated twenty times over.

I don't doubt that Ovis costs are higher, but 6 grand? They're having a ball or their order book is way too thin.

Nobody has answered the mast question is it all carbon now or not, makes a big difference to cost I imagine?


AIUI, you can get a carbon lower mast for the radial rig.

If you want to argue about the economics of cheap boats, the Laser is not the best place to start, because what you're actually buying with a Laser is a slice of the World Sailing overheads, the ability to charter boats for champioships, a whole load of costs beyond the hardware. I don't believe either Topper or Laser did very well out of other designs.
The capital cost of a Laser at over six grand really isn't bad when you can be reasonably sure of getting good money for it after 5 years. Compares pretty well with say a racing pushbike.
   Personally I am put off buying a new boat, because I will be racing off a beach where the boat is sure to get some knocks. I don't need a brand new boat for my level of ability and commitment, a good ten year old one would give me no excuse for not winning in our fleet. That's what One Design Racing is all about. I don't actually want to chequebook my way to having the best boat, 'as good as any of the others' will do. If you can actually contribute anything regarding cheap things that float, I'm in the market for a two person sit on kayak. Must be a fair market for those, but at £600 upwards for a rotomoulding, they look poor value to me. Used ones even worse value with abrasions and UV damage.
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 22 at 10:06am
So what are you saying you wouldn't want an entry level Laser for £1500?

No don't tell me, it might devalue your Class Association boat.

And there we have it in a nutshell the stupidity of a Class lead sport denying mass entry because of petty protectionism, whilst wondering why their sport is dying?

Can't really write this stuff really can you, nor make it up?

Edited by iGRF - 01 Feb 22 at 10:07am
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