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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Lasers
    Posted: 01 Feb 22 at 9:59am
Finest cardboard and monkey metal introducing the 'Lotus' it's not a ILCA
Robert
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 22 at 9:12am
Originally posted by iGRF

Not that difficult if production were taken offshore,... and those hulls, no more than $300 a pop, maximum, the rest of the bits? $50.00 all you need are sensible MOQ's (minimum order quantitys) probably as low as 1-200 pcs.

Introducing the ILWS (International Laser Walmart Special)  LOL
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 22 at 7:07am
Constantly looking to reduce costs by going for offshore production, well, thats worked out really well, because we can do something, doesn't mean we have to.
Robert
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 22 at 12:28am
Originally posted by eric_c

[---]
You try building them for significantly less]


Not that difficult if production were taken offshore, bear in mind I was quickly prevented from importing Laser sails by your little industry 'cartel', landing them here for $25.0 US, not so long ago, and those hulls,no more than $300 a pop, maximum, the rest of the bits? $50.00 all you need are sensible MOQ's (minimum order quantitys) probably as low as 1-200 pcs.

Fact is y'all have all been soaked for years by probably the biggest margin product in the business, those moulds must have been homologated twenty times over.

I don't doubt that Ovis costs are higher, but 6 grand? They're having a ball or their order book is way too thin.

Nobody has answered the mast question is it all carbon now or not, makes a big difference to cost I imagine?

Edited by iGRF - 01 Feb 22 at 12:31am
Snow Equipment Deals    New Core Kite website
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Grumpycat View Drop Down
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Posts: 497 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Grumpycat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 22 at 10:58pm
Originally posted by john80

The whole idea that a laser is worth about 6k new is what I can't get my head round. This applies to all boats. We seem to be taking the idea that they are a luxury item to higher heights with every year. It's not very accessible for those who are not currently in the game which leads to the issue where sailing may well not sustain itself.

Allowing for inflation they are no more expensive than they ever have been.

In 1970 a Ford cortina was about £950  and a Laser was about £350/£400.  
A comparable Ford model today  is at least £23000 and even the cheapest Ford is about £18000. 

I don’t really see what’s changed  Smile


Edited by Grumpycat - 31 Jan 22 at 11:05pm
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eric_c View Drop Down
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Posts: 382 		Post Options Post Options   Quote eric_c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 22 at 9:45pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by eric_c

'Replica' is quite a loaded word.

Maybe, but its exactly the same usage as has been used for 3rd party sails in recent years. Much more loaded words are available!


Lots of 'words ' are available, quantities of them from people with no real interest in one design or 'level' racing, mostly adding no value.
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eric_c View Drop Down
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Posts: 382 		Post Options Post Options   Quote eric_c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 22 at 9:38pm
Originally posted by john80

The whole idea that a laser is worth about 6k new is what I can't get my head round. This applies to all boats. We seem to be taking the idea that they are a luxury item to higher heights with every year. It's not very accessible for those who are not currently in the game which leads to the issue where sailing may well not sustain itself.


You try building them for significantly less.

For sure a no-name workshop can knock out something vaguely similar for maybe £3k, but you have to sell quite a few to pay the rent. Have you ever designed a product, got it to manufacture and seen it through production? It's somewhere between tough and pointless unless you can either charge £50k a go or sell thousands.


The issue with sailing is more about people wanting new stuff all the time, what stops people from buying an old boat for a three figure sum and club racing against similar?

The value in a £6k laser is buying into an ecosystem of level racing at international standard. If you don't value that, buy something else. Much as I don't like the Laser as a boat, if you can buy one for £6k, race it for 3 years and sell it for £4k, in that time you have dozens of quality events to go to and it is great value. It Is Not Just The Lump Of Plastic.

Most other classes, you get big depreciation and far fewer events.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 22 at 9:15pm
Raking over old mud.
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john80 View Drop Down
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Posts: 37 		Post Options Post Options   Quote john80 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 22 at 8:57pm
The whole idea that a laser is worth about 6k new is what I can't get my head round. This applies to all boats. We seem to be taking the idea that they are a luxury item to higher heights with every year. It's not very accessible for those who are not currently in the game which leads to the issue where sailing may well not sustain itself.
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 22 at 7:57pm
Topper Byte ? Yamaha Hopper ? XL ? Not that cut and dried.



Edited by 423zero - 31 Jan 22 at 8:41pm
Robert
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