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Boats for sale
| Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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| Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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| Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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Lasers |
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JimC 
Really should get out more 
Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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 Topic: LasersPosted: 31 Jan 22 at 7:52pm |
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Maybe, but its exactly the same usage as has been used for 3rd party sails in recent years. Much more loaded words are available! |
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eric_c
Far too distracted from work 
Joined: 21 Jan 18 Online Status: Offline Posts: 382 |
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Posted: 31 Jan 22 at 7:32pm |
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'Replica' is quite a loaded word. If you type 'define replica' into your favourite search engine, you will get several definitions. Ranging from implying exact copies to including scale models. You could say that all 200-odd thousand boats are literally replicas of Kirby's original. It's not helpful, it allows people put whatever interpretation on the word which suits them. I don't know what the best word is, it's more like a software 'fork' where something abandons commonality with its precursors and becomes a separate product? Bearing in mind the 'product' is as much the racing as the lump of plastic.
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eric_c
Far too distracted from work
Joined: 21 Jan 18 Online Status: Offline Posts: 382 |
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Posted: 31 Jan 22 at 7:07pm |
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And what happens when someone realises the 'Laser' is physically different to the ILCA-endorsed boat? Which is going to happen, due to building tolerances. Do we know whether the 'Laser' is still built to the 'build manual'? If there is no ILCA/World Sailing QA process, then you can't really assume it's the same. Why not allow people to mould their own hulls? At the end of the day, essentially ILCA is a bunch of people who race boats, and they decide what boats are eligible. Likewise 'The Laser Class' can invite whatever boats they like to race in their class. Or anyone can race in other races where the NoR makes them eligible. The issue at the moment is scarcity of used boats, especially at sensible prices. Boats which would have been £1500 five years ago are now over 2 grand for a 20 year old boat that's probably had a hard life. When you want to upgrade from that level, the £4k new boat starts to look appealing. Bearing in mind that most used boats under £3k need a £600 upper mast upgrade. The question is, where will future values go? If used boats drop back to where you'd have projected 5 years ago, then that's a big hit for the casual club sailor. If you don't want the ILCA open meeting circuit and all that, then there is a lot to be said for buying something else entirely. Or putting a new replica sail on a 25year old boat and enjoying some racing.
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JimC
Really should get out more
Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Posted: 31 Jan 22 at 6:53pm |
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Of course they would. We refused entry for replica sails. Its not a question of refusing entry - a boat that doesn't measure simply isn't eligible to race. End of.
No, you're quite wrong. The original builder was Performance Sailcraft. They went bust years ago, 70s or maybe 80s. I believe the most recent authorised builder in Europe was Laser Performance Europe Ltd. That company is moribund and will probably go bust because they owe millions to Bruce Kirby's heirs for trademark violations, breaking contracts etc. They built boats in the UK. The boats currently being marketed with the Laser Trademark are being built by Laser Performance LLC, who were probably never an authorised International Laser builder, and are being built in a factory in Portugal that has never been approved by the ILCA or had any of their products checked out. They have pretty much nothing to do with the International Laser class except that they license the trademark 'Laser'. Replica seems entirely fair and accurate. | Edited by JimC - 31 Jan 22 at 6:57pm |
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423zero
Really should get out more
Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3420 |
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Posted: 31 Jan 22 at 6:28pm |
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Second post and suggesting putting bogus stickers on a LP hull
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Robert
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Grumpycat
Far too distracted from work
Joined: 29 Sep 20 Online Status: Offline Posts: 497 |
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Posted: 31 Jan 22 at 6:19pm |
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The smell of LP sock puppet has suddenly got a lot stronger
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Demelza
Newbie 
Joined: 01 Aug 21 Online Status: Offline Posts: 31 |
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Posted: 31 Jan 22 at 5:27pm |
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I would think it difficult for clubs that allow replica sails for club racing not accept a current Laser produced by LP.
I would not expect a club to refuse entry for a Laser at an open event or ask for evidence of UKLA membership. They never have in the past and would rather have the entry to their event. This could be expected at the less popular qualifier and national level events. To call a LP Laser a 'replica' is a misnomer and somewhat ironic as they produced the original boat, surely the Ovington ILCA is the replica. Interesting scenario, buy the cheaper Laser for club sailing and an ILCA sail for open events together with UKLA membership. You could choose any relevant sail number. You could even add a copy hull plaque!! |
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JimC
Really should get out more
Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Posted: 31 Jan 22 at 5:04pm |
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Its all down to the NOR. If the NOR says Laser/ILCA the boats need to be in compliance with class rules, same as any other class. If the NOR says not-quite-Lasers are acceptable then that's fine.
If you read the rules the class membership requirement only applies to CA sanctioned events, so not club racing or the majority of multi class open events. |
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iGRF
Really should get out more
Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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Posted: 31 Jan 22 at 4:54pm |
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We were having a Laser conversation on sunday morning on yet another winter windless sunday, anyway is it true you can buy one for around 4 grand and with a carbon mast?
Not just crabon top, seems a good deal to me, as for paying a blind bit of notice to the class bollox I've never seen it adhered to in my entire time in dinghy world. In fact only a couple of them appear to have the correct sail and that was more by error than judgement. |
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eric_c
Far too distracted from work
Joined: 21 Jan 18 Online Status: Offline Posts: 382 |
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Posted: 31 Jan 22 at 4:43pm |
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It's not just 'IlCA' events you have to consider, but also any regatta such as Chichester Harbour Federation Week, where there is what used to be called 'class racing for Lasers'. In the past they have DSQ'd people for replica sails one year after tolerating them the year before. Other regattas take a different view. Don't forget that if people get picky, one essential class legal item is a helm who's a member of ILCA.
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