Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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List classes of boat for sale |
Reforming the Portsmouth Yardstick System |
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iGRF ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 08 Apr 21 at 9:57pm |
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What's wrong with varying who wins the chocolates? Surely the idea is to broaden participation, not retain a pathetic duck pond pecking order,which will always be, by defintion caused by Body Shape, weight, experience.
Like you lot always bray, if you want all that go sail a class, do some open meetings, get good, train down the gym spend every waking moment on the water, learn how to be a total a**hole, use every dirty sh*t trick to get what you want and when it doesn't happen jump into the press boat and start beating up cameramen. If very dog doesn't have at least one day, they just slope off and pee up some other wall. Edited by iGRF - 08 Apr 21 at 9:59pm |
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johnbrooker ![]() Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: 31 Jan 20 Online Status: Offline Posts: 44 |
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There's nothing wrong with personal handicaps but they are a seperate issue. what we do at our club which works quite well is apply the personal handicap to the weekly class race- so we have two sets of results from one race. If you have a race with results that are just personal handicaps the participation tends to go down.
I agree with you the desire to win can make you unethical (but by no means in all cases). People like that will always exist. If you stop them winning they'll just go elsewhere. It's a difficult balance but I think the easiest and best solution is how we do it- one race- two sets of results.
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Sam.Spoons ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3401 |
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A new sailor is unlikely to expect to win, I'm not sure how penalising him when he does get good enough to win is going to encourage him to sail more?
The current system does give every dog it's day, Solos and Ents in the light on a duckpond, 5ohs and I14's on the sea in a breeze and all points in-between.
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
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robin34024 ![]() Posting king ![]() ![]() Joined: 03 Jan 12 Location: Lincoln Online Status: Offline Posts: 116 |
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Even this isn't infallible. Take an Enterprise for example - a 1980's Lufkin/Lloyd/Ovington/possibly other Ent is likely to be fast, even at national level. Heck, even some older boats by Avacraft/Bacon/Smith and Davies/possibly others are likely to be fast. But, take an early Holt FRP Ent that's been ragged, and it's likely to be slower. Playing devils advocate a bit here, but some things can't just be reduced to formula. This isn't unique to Ents - an early Woof Albacore that hasn't been abused is most likely to be faster than a Fosrite glass boat. A Cory GRP Streaker is liklely to be slower than a Gillard wood of the same vintage. Take the Wooden Solo that GRF mentioned in another thread. I'm sure there are more examples - there are always outliers, and development isn't always linear. And don't get me started on how this would work for some development classes...
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Why would you want a formula to differentiate between good and bad examples of a class design? Buy a slow boat and you shouldn’t expect to win. All Enterprises have the same potential, if you buy a dog it shouldn’t expect a different handicap to an an Ovi.
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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There are other achievements possible than simply fastest sailor, and a club may wish to give prizes for some of those. Improvement year on year for instance, or exceptional performance on the day. Various forms of personal handicap can let the club give prizes for such. Personal handicaps can also act as a visible measure of progress. I recall, for instance, the smile on a youngsters face when he was first ranked as faster than his father. |
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davidyacht ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 29 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1345 |
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Personal handicap pursuit races can be fun
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Happily living in the past
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iGRF ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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My logical mind always assumed initially that the yardstick, by virtue of it's name even, was a measure for performance you could expect from a given boat, which I still think should be a given and only varied if something physical actually changes to alter that performance.
Now two things actually contribute, the boat and the driver, you could go a whole lot further and like Golf courses apply whatever they do, say Par for a given wind condition, it's not beyond the wit and science of man, but there needs to be logic. Something to understand, other than the ravings of a 'secret bunch of agenda driven buffers in smoke filled rooms' as the quote goes. It also needs to be adminstered by people with enthusiasm for it, the desire to make it better, more understandable, more welcome, more efficient, whatever, not just use it as a protection device for existing classes as it has been these many years. Edited by iGRF - 09 Apr 21 at 11:00am |
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iGRF ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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Above all, this. ![]() |
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Sam.Spoons ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3401 |
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Isn't that called 'The Great Lakes Handicap"?
Edited by Sam.Spoons - 09 Apr 21 at 11:03am |
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
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