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Reforming the Portsmouth Yardstick System

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iGRF View Drop Down
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    Posted: 08 Apr 21 at 9:57pm
What's wrong with varying who wins the chocolates? Surely the idea is to broaden participation, not retain a pathetic duck pond pecking order,which will always be, by defintion caused by Body Shape, weight, experience.

Like you lot always bray, if you want all that go sail a class, do some open meetings, get good, train down the gym spend every waking moment on the water, learn how to be a total a**hole, use every dirty sh*t trick to get what you want and when it doesn't happen jump into the press boat and start beating up cameramen.

If very dog doesn't have at least one day, they just slope off and pee up some other wall.



Edited by iGRF - 08 Apr 21 at 9:59pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote johnbrooker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 21 at 10:38pm
There's nothing wrong with personal handicaps but they are a seperate issue. what we do at our club which works quite well is apply the personal handicap to the weekly class race- so we have two sets of results from one race. If you have a race with results that are just personal handicaps the participation tends to go down. 

I agree with you the desire to win can make you unethical (but by no means in all cases). People like that will always exist. If you stop them winning they'll just go elsewhere. 

It's a difficult balance but I think the easiest and best solution is how we do it- one race- two sets of results.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 21 at 7:31am
A new sailor is unlikely to expect to win, I'm not sure how penalising him when he does get good enough to win is going to encourage him to sail more? 

The current system does give every dog it's day, Solos and Ents in the light on a duckpond, 5ohs and I14's on the sea in a breeze and all points in-between.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote robin34024 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 21 at 8:43am
Originally posted by mongrel

Originally posted by davidyacht

Problem with formula based PY is it would not overcome the perceived difference in performance in different generations of one designs ... new Solo is built to the same rules, weight, measurements as a 20 year old Solo, but people keep saying that the latest Solos are noticeably faster than the old ones ... ho hum 
The right formula could allow for that, factor in year built, material type, construction type into the formula?

Even this isn't infallible. Take an Enterprise for example - a 1980's Lufkin/Lloyd/Ovington/possibly other Ent is likely to be fast, even at national level. Heck, even some older boats by Avacraft/Bacon/Smith and Davies/possibly others are likely to be fast. But, take an early Holt FRP Ent that's been ragged, and it's likely to be slower. Playing devils advocate a bit here, but some things can't just be reduced to formula. 

This isn't unique to Ents - an early Woof Albacore that hasn't been abused is most likely to be faster than a Fosrite glass boat. A Cory GRP Streaker is liklely to be slower than a Gillard wood of the same vintage. Take the Wooden Solo that GRF mentioned in another thread. I'm sure there are more examples - there are always outliers, and development isn't always linear.

And don't get me started on how this would work for some development classes...  LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 21 at 10:12am
Why would you want a formula to differentiate between good and bad examples of a class design? Buy a slow boat and you shouldn’t expect to win. All Enterprises have the same potential, if you buy a dog it shouldn’t expect a different handicap to an an Ovi.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 21 at 10:15am
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

A new sailor is unlikely to expect to win, I'm not sure how penalising him when he does get good enough to win is going to encourage him to sail more?

There are other achievements possible than simply fastest sailor, and a club may wish to give prizes for some of those. Improvement year on year for instance, or exceptional performance on the day. Various forms of personal handicap can let the club give prizes for such. Personal handicaps can also act as a visible measure of progress. I recall, for instance, the smile on a youngsters face when he was first ranked as faster than his father.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 21 at 10:39am
Personal handicap pursuit races can be fun
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 21 at 10:58am
My logical mind always assumed initially that the yardstick, by virtue of it's name even, was a measure for performance you could expect from a given boat, which I still think should be a given and only varied if something physical actually changes to alter that performance.

Now two things actually contribute, the boat and the driver, you could go a whole lot further and like Golf courses apply whatever they do, say Par for a given wind condition, it's not beyond the wit and science of man, but there needs to be logic. Something to understand, other than the ravings of a 'secret bunch of agenda driven buffers in smoke filled rooms' as the quote goes.

It also needs to be adminstered by people with enthusiasm for it, the desire to make it better, more understandable, more welcome, more efficient, whatever, not just use it as a protection device for existing classes as it has been these many years.

Edited by iGRF - 09 Apr 21 at 11:00am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 21 at 11:02am
Originally posted by JimC

Personal handicaps can also act as a visible measure of progress. I recall, for instance, the smile on a youngsters face when he was first ranked as faster than his father.


Above all, this.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 21 at 11:02am
Originally posted by iGRF

It also needs to be adminstered by people with enthusiasm for it, the desire to make it better, more understandable, more welcome, more efficient,

Isn't that called 'The Great Lakes Handicap"?


Edited by Sam.Spoons - 09 Apr 21 at 11:03am
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