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Reforming the Portsmouth Yardstick System |
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iGRF 
Really should get out more 
Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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 Topic: Reforming the Portsmouth Yardstick SystemPosted: 07 Apr 21 at 8:20pm |
How so? When the boats are already built. Can you really see a glut of new builds, just to fool a handicapsystem, not like now.. Oh wait. |
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davidyacht
Really should get out more
Joined: 29 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1345 |
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Posted: 07 Apr 21 at 9:00pm |
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Problem with formula based PY is it would not overcome the perceived difference in performance in different generations of one designs ... new Solo is built to the same rules, weight, measurements as a 20 year old Solo, but people keep saying that the latest Solos are noticeably faster than the old ones ... ho hum
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Happily living in the past
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mongrel
Far too distracted from work 
Joined: 27 Aug 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 304 |
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Posted: 08 Apr 21 at 9:14am |
The right formula could allow for that, factor in year built, material type, construction type into the formula?
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KazRob
Far too distracted from work
Joined: 22 Oct 16 Location: Scotland Online Status: Offline Posts: 245 |
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Posted: 08 Apr 21 at 9:43am |
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People have been trying to create mathematical formulas to rate sailing boats for at least a couple of centuries and in every case they have been found wanting once competitive pressures come to bear on them. For instance the IOR started as a single page of A4 but ended up as dozens of pages of notes, caveats and definitions I believe. The closest seems to be the full blown VPP programme, but they need constant attention and tweaks as well.
Again I recommend having a read of the 'Yacht Rating' book for a fascinating insight to how the same issues on calculating handicaps come up in every generation that tries. If it was simple it would have been fixed decades ago! So IMO there's a lot to be said for simplicity in using actual race results to assign a handicap like the PY does despite it's failings.
Edited by KazRob - 08 Apr 21 at 9:44am |
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OK 2249
D-1 138 |
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Cirrus
Really should get out more
Joined: 29 Oct 15 Location: UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 590 |
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Posted: 08 Apr 21 at 12:58pm |
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'Formula' racing inevitably tends towards evolving into a class of its own of course - people will build or select 'their' boats in relation to the rules applied. Then if this group want to race more widely you have to set a handicap for your formula in relation to other formulas or 'classes'.... Some existing classes are in effect 'formula' classes already, they are often called 'development classes'. (The road to hell was always paved with good intentions .... )
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Guests
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Posted: 08 Apr 21 at 1:36pm |
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Deleted
Edited by Peaky - 08 Apr 21 at 9:50pm |
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iGRF
Really should get out more
Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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Posted: 08 Apr 21 at 7:57pm |
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The simplicity and difference between all your ratings of old, would be the fact you are combining two. The Boat, fixed around it's stated measurement and the helm who's intention can either be to work hard to reduce his/her handicap, or adjust according to his/her spreading waist line, either way it takes the handicap back into the realms of those that wish to use it, rather than a bunch of what shall I call them this time? Not particularly bothered soviet committee types, foisting it upon the world in a totalitarian manner.
Edited by iGRF - 08 Apr 21 at 7:58pm |
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Sam.Spoons
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Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3401 |
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Posted: 08 Apr 21 at 8:25pm |
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Personal handicaps are a bit of a nonsense TBH, all they do is give crap sailors a chance to win (and I'm one of those crap sailors so qualified to hold this opinion)
Edited by Sam.Spoons - 08 Apr 21 at 8:25pm |
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
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johnbrooker
Groupie 
Joined: 31 Jan 20 Online Status: Offline Posts: 44 |
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Posted: 08 Apr 21 at 8:41pm |
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There is certainly an issue with seeing all of one class as of equal speed. There can be significant jumps forward in design. e.g. the Solos after sail number 4100 got significantly faster.
What you could do is have a handicap for each year- the right software could easily work out what the handicaps should be.
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johnbrooker
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Joined: 31 Jan 20 Online Status: Offline Posts: 44 |
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Posted: 08 Apr 21 at 8:43pm |
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On the personal handicap issue - they're nice and all but pretty irrelevent to racing which by definition is a competition to see who is the best. Personal handicaps and the Portsmouth Yardstick are two separate matters.
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