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Boats for sale
| Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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| Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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| Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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Detuning a Penultimate International 14? |
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Old bloke 
Posting king 
Joined: 03 Nov 17 Online Status: Offline Posts: 121 |
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 Topic: Detuning a Penultimate International 14?Posted: 22 Mar 21 at 4:46pm |
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Not double floored, but a 505 ticks all your other boxes
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Sam.Spoons
Really should get out more 
Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3401 |
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Posted: 22 Mar 21 at 4:42pm |
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You probably need a shortlist of classes that are available within a couple of hours drive of you, if you were in the UK I'd say Buzz, L2000 (a little on the heavy side admittedly and would probably stretch the budget), ISO, Laser 2 and L3k are probably a bit on the small size for 180kg...
There used to be a dinghy database on the Noble website but it disappeared in the last revamp. I did save a copy as an Excel spreadsheet if it might be of help identifying suitable candidates. https://www.dropbox.com/s/a4nk3jngwiye9ha/Dinghy%20Database.xls?dl=0
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
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skslr
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Joined: 24 Jul 06 Location: Germany Online Status: Offline Posts: 139 |
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Posted: 22 Mar 21 at 3:25pm |
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Bad news
(or maybe it saved me from doing something stupid?): The offer for the penultimate international 14 was just too good and someone else was faster. I followed the advice to look for a 29er Rigg with sails and actually found a cheap rigg with a hull under it, with just the kite missing. Now a 29er would
barely float at the upper end at the intended crew weight range, so that’s no
option here. So unless another cheap international pops up I need to look at alternatives. Does anyone have proposals for cheap double floored hulls that weigh in at < 100 kgs and can support 180 kg combined crews without dragging the transom through the water / forcing the crew to move in front of the shrouds or even the mast? |
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davidyacht
Really should get out more
Joined: 29 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1345 |
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Posted: 19 Mar 21 at 9:00am |
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Ah, mine were 1208 and 1242. Think the numbers were drilled into the centre transom bar support moulding. There were quite a few attempts at finding masts that stayed up back then, particularly during the transition to assymetric kites
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Happily living in the past
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skslr
Posting king
Joined: 24 Jul 06 Location: Germany Online Status: Offline Posts: 139 |
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Posted: 18 Mar 21 at 10:06pm |
The kite for the one in question now still says K1223. My wife had the former K1220 more than 15 years ago. Back then there were considerable differences between the masts... |
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JimC
Really should get out more
Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Posted: 18 Mar 21 at 5:39pm |
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Well the trouble is the whole business of rig performance comes into it. Bearing in mind the intended purpose a hard mouthed bitch of a rig with the gust response of a telegraph pole isn't going to cut the mustard. What you are going to need is gust response and a sail matched to the mast.
That's why I think a 29er rig would be the best bet: its the most responsive rig of about the right size that might be readily available to you. A good IC or Cherub rig might even be better, but finding a good one available on the second hand market anywhere near you will be next to impossible. From what I recall last time I looked at one 470 rigs tend to be setup for power rather than gust response, but I still reckon its going to be better than a Frankenrig. |
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davidyacht
Really should get out more
Joined: 29 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1345 |
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Posted: 18 Mar 21 at 5:04pm |
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Out of interest what is the number? I had two
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Happily living in the past
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skslr
Posting king
Joined: 24 Jul 06 Location: Germany Online Status: Offline Posts: 139 |
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Posted: 18 Mar 21 at 3:21pm |
I have to admit, cutting the mast is somewhat tempting and would save the search, purchase cost and the transport of another mast  I have seen someone cutting down a similar broken int14 mast for a rigg similar to an 470 so it should be not that far off. Not sure if I would still trust the composite mast tip of a 29er Rigg that is being sold cheaply with UV impact and all that - if available at all. Just saw a brand new Windesign 420 main and Jib package for 665 Euros. Maybe that would actually work better than clapped out 470 sails? |
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JimC
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Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Posted: 18 Mar 21 at 2:26pm |
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Fore and aft balance is IMHO greatly exaggerated. Look at the number of one design classes with sails that barely fit the boat since rake has been increased so much since the designer drew it. On a modern dinghy side load is shared between rudder and daggerboard. Move the rig back and forward and the helm completely automatically increases or reduced the angle of incidence of the rudder by a fraction to compensate.
The N12 rig on a 14 mentioned above (which I set up for him) is perfectly satisfactory - indeed to my astonishment even the jib sheeting angle was good and it didn't even need a barber hauler added. I'd be mildly surprised if a 470 rig didn't do a good job. I think I'd try and source a complete rig rather than chop up the 14 spars though. A 29er rig might be the best option, but more trouble to find than a 470. Edited by JimC - 18 Mar 21 at 2:32pm |
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skslr
Posting king
Joined: 24 Jul 06 Location: Germany Online Status: Offline Posts: 139 |
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Posted: 18 Mar 21 at 1:51pm |
Thank you!
Righting: Requiring both crew on the Daggerboard was fairly typical back then - I hope it would get easier with a shorter mast and smaller sails! Tacking: That's a trade-off we will need to accept then. The (very low key) club races are dominated by ILCAs anyway Fore/aft balance: Understood. Not sure if some of the 14s back then could move the daggerboard some inches back and fore ashore by placing some kind of "chocks" in the daggerboard slot. If yes this could help to balance the boat again. Running aground: The gravel pit is up to 15 m deep - that's the one thing I do not worry about :-) |
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