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Demise of the Laser 4000
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Noah View Drop Down
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Posts: 611 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Noah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Demise of the Laser 4000
    Posted: 08 Jul 20 at 3:29pm
But the beauty of a pole kite - in my eyes as a devotee of the venerable furball - is that the skilled amongst us can keep a pole kite pulling through a gybe. It is something I aspire to and rarely achieve. A sprit kite cannot do that. Arguably any eejit can set, trim and gybe an assy. Either trim to the course steered or steer to the kite set. (If I've got that wrong I will unreservedly apologise.) The additional skills and teamwork needed for a pole kite are part of the attraction. 
Nick
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fab100 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1005 		Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 20 at 3:30pm
Originally posted by iGRF

I'm trying to wrestle the swinging system off my old V2

oo-er Missus, now you tell us what the V-twin was really for  Evil Smile
Great book for Club Sailors here
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Noah View Drop Down
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Posts: 611 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Noah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 20 at 3:36pm
Originally posted by Peaky

Very true, ease of handling is a big bonus bore compared to a pole kite.

FTFY

Note to self - stop it - you'll end up like a certain Kentishman  Cry
Nick
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Oinks View Drop Down
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Posts: 267 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Oinks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 20 at 5:07pm
Cirrus...
Exactly.  And there are many 'asymetrics' that still don't really cut it.  Give the crews a ('permitted') option to goosewing the wretched sail and in many conditons and locations that is exactly what they would choose to do ...


I've tried goosewinging an asymmetric. It works ok in the lighter stuff but a bit of a mare in breezy shifty conditions. But then again, if you buy an asymmetric spinnaker boat then surely you're buying into that concept. So I don't see the logic in then wanting to choose to sail downwind goosewinged. 
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Cirrus View Drop Down
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Posts: 590 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 20 at 7:33pm
....So I don't see the logic in then wanting to choose to sail downwind goosewinged.

Guess you never owned an early 200 then......  It was launched with that capability in mind but quickly banned for a reason  ... er something to do with being too fast from memory but some of us at the time thought it should have been retained as a tactical choice for any real racing crew - ie when to do it and when to sail 'asymetrically' offwind.   ;-)



Edited by Cirrus - 08 Jul 20 at 7:35pm
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 20 at 8:26pm
I loved SRS on the 200.

Had a fun afternoon at Minorca Sailing in 2012 proving it was faster to goosewing a Vareo downwind over a short course than to sail the angles in a 100. Plenty of breeze too. It was a somewhat buttock clenching experience though!
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Oinks View Drop Down
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Posts: 267 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Oinks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 20 at 9:28pm
Hi Cirrus...well , yes I've never owned one but I did have the opportunity to sail 200s on more than a few occasions back in the early 2000 and somethings when the goosewing thing was an option. That was where we tried it and as I said, ok in light stuff not so good otherwise as far as me and a few others were concerned. I couldn't say whether or not it was banned because it was too fast. Presumably that was a decision taken by the members of the CA. From my recollection it was mostly because most buyers didn't want it. They bought an asymmetric spinnaker dinghy and bought into that concept. Lets say the 200 class hasn't suffered for that change. But I would ask, how long did you own a 200 for?
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Mozzy View Drop Down
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Posts: 209 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Mozzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 20 at 9:39pm
Er, it's only banned at events where it says so in SIs. So, you can fill your boots in any other club event, SailJuice etc... except people still don't. If it was really faster, or fast enough to be worth the hassle, then you would still see it being used.

I've heard that it was stopped because few people used it, the gains were marginal and often over ridden by the faff. Basically, people didn't want to have to carry a pole and all the extra rigging for that one race of an event where it would be useful. And when it was useful, it wasn't deemed by the majority to be 'better' racing. 

Simply booming out an asymmetric doesn't make it perform like a similar sized symmetric, though, so I don't find it surprising that the gain was marginal at best and the experience frustrating.


Edited by Mozzy - 08 Jul 20 at 9:42pm
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Oinks View Drop Down
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Posts: 267 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Oinks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 20 at 9:53pm
Good clarification Mozzy. Ta!
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Sussex Lad View Drop Down
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Posts: 360 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sussex Lad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 20 at 10:36am
 Funny thing is once we've made a decision regarding assy or symmy we're then put under pressure to justify it, just like many other decisions in life. Trouble is most justifications after the event are rationalisations and as such not really worth much.

Dunno for sure but maybe the best and most truthful way to justify a decision that's legal and doesn't effect anyone else surely must be "because I like it".

.......mind you that would stifle an awful lot of discussion  Wink




Edited by Sussex Lad - 09 Jul 20 at 10:36am
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