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Demise of the Laser 4000

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Mark Aged 42 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Mark Aged 42 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Demise of the Laser 4000
    Posted: 03 Jul 20 at 9:50am
Originally posted by Paramedic

The 5000 is heavier (By 1 kilo) than a Wayfarer!

Seriously - that is incredible, what on earth was Laser thinking when they approved the design???
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 20 at 10:20am
It's called evolution. The Iso came out in '93, the L4k in '95 and the 29er on '97. Each was able to learn from the development of the previous. It's far from surprising the 29er is the best of the bunch as once ISO set the bar, L4k and later 29er were in position to raise it. But, where the ISO and L4k are pretty much direct competitors the 29er is clearly aimed at lighter crews, it's shorter, lighter, narrower at the waterline and has about 22% less sail area.

Back to the ISO/L4k, whether they were great boats or not is a matter of opinion I guess but both were pretty successful for a while until people learned from their mistakes and more modern 'skiffs' emerged.

WRT weight, an I14 has a min hull weight of 72kg so the L4k and ISO at 80kg and 85kg cannot be considered massively overweight in comparison considering their 'standard' construction without exotics.


Edited by Sam.Spoons - 03 Jul 20 at 10:21am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 20 at 10:26am
Originally posted by Mark Aged 42

Originally posted by Paramedic

The 5000 is heavier (By 1 kilo) than a Wayfarer!

Seriously - that is incredible, what on earth was Laser thinking when they approved the design???

No thats way out, 5 tonner hull weighs 109kg, 58kg lighter than a Waybarge at 167kg. It's still a heavy old beast though when the Boss was 85kg and the 49er a remarkable, for the time, 62kg (how was that weighed? Did they do the usual wool pulling exercise and weigh without fittings, foils and racks?)


Edited by Sam.Spoons - 03 Jul 20 at 10:27am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Gordon 1430 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 20 at 10:40am
I believe the prototype Olympic 5000 as it was called was much lighter, but it got the Laser treatment. The rig was also so heavy and broke a lot in the early days.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Mozzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 20 at 10:41am
62 kilo 49er must bare hull without wings. But I've nver heard 62 kilo with a 49er.

I can't remember exactly but the weight at events was around 90 or 100. That was with racks and spinnaker pole and all the screwed in fittings. 

29er was 72kg with the same stuff on as above (no wings of course). 

Now, what is supposed to be 62 kilo is the 800. But that's completely bare with no racks. That's never weighed though, unlike the 9er class rule weights, so that number is down to RS quality control. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 20 at 11:24am
I did wonder, the figure comes from the Noble Dinghy Database so somebody must have claimed it at some point. The Int 49er page lists hull weights as weighed at events and, as you say, they nearly all fall between 91 and 96 kg which sounds much more reasonable.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 20 at 11:58am
At the ISAF trials in 1996 the measured all up weights on the club scales were:
49er 132kg
Boss 157kg
5000 192kg (42kg more than the claimed figure!)
With weight equalisation the 5tonner could have another 35kg of lead...

Edited by JimC - 03 Jul 20 at 11:59am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 20 at 12:06pm
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons


It's called evolution. The Iso came out in '93, the L4k in '95 and the 29er on '97. Each was able to learn from the development of the previous.

I'm sorry, but anyone who thinks the Iso and 4tonner had even the slightest influence on the 29er design is right off the park. Its a straightforward logical development of what Farr, Bethwaite, Murray et al had been doing in antipodean classes. The other two had a bad attack of Hambleitis, and thought the i14s, who had gone down a complete rule led blind alley in development, were a good model to work with. What's ironic though is that the 14 blind alley was also their most popular period in the UK, so go figure...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 20 at 2:10pm
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

[
No thats way out, 5 tonner hull weighs 109kg,

Not according to Wikipedia it doesn't, and i'd believe that over anything Laser tell you :)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 20 at 2:18pm
Not such a blind alley, then, Jim? If you take the whole package and whether it does what a sailor wants, then design philosophy and the last nth of speed is pretty unimportant.
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