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Is Racing Allowed?

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polc1410 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 16 Jun 20 at 4:26pm
Originally posted by fab100

I'm trying to workout this morning how people queuing for 24 hours outside Primark (FFS) in the proximity of the same stranger for hours on end is not a 'gathering', but a load of boats tens or more of metres (apart from a couple of minutes for a start, but even then 2m apart) across an an hour or so is a gathering.
The words in the law that matter are " to undertake any other activity with each other"   we may all be very capable of realising there is probably a far bigger risk in the queue from Primark than on the startline of a race.  But that doesn't make it legal.  So if I was daft enough to join the queue in Primark, while there are other people there, I am not there to shop with them.  If I join a start line with 7 boats on it, I can't reasonably claim that racing is not an activity, or that I'm not there to race with the other boats... can I?  That is the fundamental purpose of racing (the way we do it) is it not?

Originally posted by fab100

Extending the same logic, only 6 family groups  
To be accurate it is 6 people unless they are all from the one household or one linked housed (aka a bubble).  You can't have 6 families.

Originally posted by fab100

are permitted to go for a walk around the Devil's Punchbowl or whatever, even though there's acres of it.
If they are there to undertake that activity as a collective group - say a charity walk - they are there to undertake the activity with each other.  If they have turned up and there are other people who happen to be there (just like the shop) and so if the others immediately left they would still continue their activity they weren't there to do the activity with others.

Originally posted by fab100

I refer to my previous post about the stupidity of hard and fast rules and sense of a principles based approach. This is not, thankfully, the USA, a country dominated by lawyers although some would like it to be, it seems. Be careful what you wish for.

So we all thought it was a bit crazy that we could meet 1 other person in the local park, but couldn't meet 1 other person in our own garden.  The reason given was simple - one is easy to police, the other isn't.  The same applies now.  The rules as they stand for gatherings of 6 people are not too difficult to police.  If you start to say "unless you are participating in a sport which can socially distance"    will you get cycling/running groups running major events and saying "keep 2m apart" and hoping for the best.

If you want to look for loopholes - you need a country dominated by lawyers.  If everyone just does their bit and waits till July when more stuff is likely to be permitted - you wouldn't need lawyers to defend you / find the loop holes.


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polc1410 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote polc1410 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 20 at 4:09pm
Originally posted by Simon Lovesey

 

Agree, pity RYA have not publicly supported HISC here. The club have put a robust plan in place with the appropriate risk assessments. This is all down to interpretation of the guidelines, many clubs are finding this C19 situation a big challenge and need clarity.
But the RYA can't back them if its not legal. 

Its hard to feel you give an unbiased opinion, when your business is dependant on people sailing to generate income.

The club's plan can be as robust as possible.  The risks can be minimised to infinitesimally small.  Doesn't matter if it is illegal.     A driving instructor, in a dual controlled car, on a deserted road with no other cars, pedestrains or road users can't legally teach a 16year 11month and 28 day year old to drive even though the risk will be no greater a week later.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote zeon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 20 at 3:39pm
Originally posted by Sussex Lad

I'm amazed.......sailors arguing about rule interpretation, who'd have thought. Wink

It's another division, cracks appearing everywhere and all products of fear and anger. Hopefully, one day we will be able to focus on what we have in common again.

Best post on this whole thread  Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Quote zeon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 20 at 3:38pm
........

Edited by zeon - 01 Oct 20 at 12:50pm
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 20 at 1:53pm
Originally posted by Sussex Lad

I'm amazed.......sailors arguing about rule interpretation, who'd have thought. Wink

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sussex Lad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 20 at 1:41pm
I'm amazed.......sailors arguing about rule interpretation, who'd have thought. Wink

It's another division, cracks appearing everywhere and all products of fear and anger. Hopefully, one day we will be able to focus on what we have in common again.
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fab100 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 20 at 1:06pm
I'm trying to workout this morning how people queuing for 24 hours outside Primark (FFS) in the proximity of the same stranger for hours on end is not a 'gathering', but a load of boats tens or more of metres (apart from a couple of minutes for a start, but even then 2m apart) across an an hour or so is a gathering. Extending the same logic, only 6 family groups are permitted to go for a walk around the Devil's Punchbowl or whatever, even though there's acres of it. Just as there is Chi Harbour. The cynic in me says difference is that the shoppers generate some employment and business revenue. And of course, if HISC members were rallying to protest against something woke, they'd get plaudits not brickbats. I refer to my previous post about the stupidity of hard and fast rules and sense of a principles based approach. This is not, thankfully, the USA, a country dominated by lawyers although some would like it to be, it seems. Be careful what you wish for.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 20 at 12:01pm
They think they are doing their Tax returns, whatever, they will never meet you in the middle, everything is black and white, you are either with them or against them, WOW, few platitudes there
re, Dominic Cummings, I personally don't hold any thing against him, when you are ill and your wife could also fall ill, you need your family round you, another platitude, this from the 'Bard' himself, "there's no place like home".
Robert
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Post Options Post Options   Quote By The Lee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 20 at 9:40am
Personally I don't believe exploiting loopholes etc to justify organised racing is really justifiable. Like get a grip I have raced every weekend for the last however many years however no I have not shrivled up and died from the absense of racing! I am regularly sailing in a group of less than 6 and am using a bit of PATIENCE to wait to the month or two until organised events are expicitly allowed. Shock horror the world doesn't revolve around dinghy racing even if we sometimes wish it did.

Edited by By The Lee - 16 Jun 20 at 9:40am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Simon Lovesey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 20 at 7:54am
Originally posted by Paramedic


Originally posted by A2Z

To be honest he, the fisherman, seems a complete plonker. I’m all for a return to racing but it has to be seen to be in a responsible and sensitive way and not looking for loopholes or “everyone’s at it” justification.  I know Ian Walker has said the RYA can’t give a one size fits all guide, but it does seem to me they could be a bit clearer on whether club racing is a gathering or not.  

Yes, agreed on all counts.
With RYA backing the club would at least have something to fall back on. As it stands they have no moral grounding at all other than their own interpretation of the rules.


Agree, pity RYA have not publicly supported HISC here. The club have put a robust plan in place with the appropriate risk assessments. This is all down to interpretation of the guidelines, many clubs are finding this C19 situation a big challenge and need clarity.
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