Tower trapezing

To add to what Jim says, back in the days when 18 Foot Skiffs had far fewer restrictions and there were no limits on rig size or wingspan, there was one "world" title in the bay off Brisbane, where winds are far steadier than in Sydney.  The top competitors realised that they could just add wing extensions and then extensions on the extensions so they could get more righting moment.  The problem was that this increased load on the foils, with one top boat (Chesty Bond) breaking two (IIRC) centreboards and losing the title to Rob Brown, who (according to Chesty's forward hand) had managed to clean the whole city out of carbon fibre to use it to reinforce his own foils and wings as he upped his wingspan to 30 ft.

I'm fairly sure there's still new footage of Chesty snapping two centreboards up on YT. Those who were there are definite that the loads were greatly increased and that the wider wings were unmanageable in normal shiftier conditions.

The comments by Bieker were matched by ones about Bieker, to the tune of "Paul said that adding wings to the rudders would just make the boats faster, then we got to chuck our hulls" because changing one design parameter tends to change the rest.

Edited by CT249 - 09 Mar 20 at 11:19am

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CT249 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 08 Jul 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 399	Post Options Post Reply Quote CT249 Report Post Quote Reply Topic: Tower trapezing Posted: 09 Mar 20 at 11:17am
	To add to what Jim says, back in the days when 18 Foot Skiffs had far fewer restrictions and there were no limits on rig size or wingspan, there was one "world" title in the bay off Brisbane, where winds are far steadier than in Sydney. The top competitors realised that they could just add wing extensions and then extensions on the extensions so they could get more righting moment. The problem was that this increased load on the foils, with one top boat (Chesty Bond) breaking two (IIRC) centreboards and losing the title to Rob Brown, who (according to Chesty's forward hand) had managed to clean the whole city out of carbon fibre to use it to reinforce his own foils and wings as he upped his wingspan to 30 ft. I'm fairly sure there's still new footage of Chesty snapping two centreboards up on YT. Those who were there are definite that the loads were greatly increased and that the wider wings were unmanageable in normal shiftier conditions. The comments by Bieker were matched by ones about Bieker, to the tune of "Paul said that adding wings to the rudders would just make the boats faster, then we got to chuck our hulls" because changing one design parameter tends to change the rest. Edited by CT249 - 09 Mar 20 at 11:19am

Neptune Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 08 Jun 09 Location: Berkshire United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1314	Post Options Post Reply Quote Neptune Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 08 Mar 20 at 6:28pm
	For the life of me I can’t work out how transverse toes straps work on an IC... i desperately want a go in one through they look amazing
	Musto Skiff and Solo sailor

JimC Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662	Post Options Post Reply Quote JimC Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 08 Mar 20 at 6:10pm
	Add 20% righting moment to just about any boat and you'd really need to be throwing your rigs and foils away. Probably hulls too because of the extra loads. Paul Bieker once said to me "Everyone said twin trapezes would be a really cheap way to go faster [on Int 14s], then we all got to chuck our hulls." If you tried trapezing off the end of a standard IC sliding seat then it would immediately slide back into the middle. There has been at least one IC fitted with wide wings and a trapeze rather than the plank, but it doesn't seem to have been very satisfactory. Edited by JimC - 08 Mar 20 at 6:18pm

Riv Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 23 Nov 13 Location: South Devon Online Status: Offline Posts: 353	Post Options Post Reply Quote Riv Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 08 Mar 20 at 3:15pm
	Have all appropriate classes banned it. Why ban it anyway; is it too difficult for olympic level sailors to do?
	Mistral Div II prototype board, Original Windsurfer, Hornet built'74.

dohertpk Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Posting king Joined: 28 Sep 12 Online Status: Offline Posts: 172	Post Options Post Reply Quote dohertpk Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 08 Mar 20 at 1:45pm
	https://49er.org/blog/tower-trapezing-outlawed/

dohertpk Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Posting king Joined: 28 Sep 12 Online Status: Offline Posts: 172	Post Options Post Reply Quote dohertpk Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 08 Mar 20 at 1:44pm
	It has been banned for years...

PeterG Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 12 Jan 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 823	Post Options Post Reply Quote PeterG Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 08 Mar 20 at 9:50am
	I'd love to see that done in a shifty breeze
	Peter Ex Cont 707 Ex Laser 189635 DY 59

Sam.Spoons Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3401	Post Options Post Reply Quote Sam.Spoons Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 08 Mar 20 at 9:49am
	Completely bonkers
	Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"

Riv Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 23 Nov 13 Location: South Devon Online Status: Offline Posts: 353	Post Options Post Reply Quote Riv Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 08 Mar 20 at 9:08am
	Looks fun, is it the way to go? Is it banned already? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcGowhQe7-c I can see loads of advantages and a few minor problems, it would certainly add to the spectator value of the sport as sailors approach the skill level of gymnasts. Think how sailing clothing design would change. Shoulder pads, climbing pegs on the side of the crews wetsuits, innovations galore. Finally should you put the bigger sailor on top of the little one or vice-versa, or is it best to swap positions regularly and have two sailor of the same build. Will pyhsios like it, looks like a good way to pick up back injuries. I always wondered if IC sailors were allowed to trapeze of the end of the seat......
	Mistral Div II prototype board, Original Windsurfer, Hornet built'74.