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    Posted: 23 Dec 19 at 7:19pm
Originally posted by iGRF

People keep pointing me at a Streaker.. Have been thinking of getting a full carbon one built with carbon everything, to hell with the class luddites, if Jack were around now and had access to all the stuff available these days, I'm sure he'd have gone with it. Built like my Farr37 it could be done sub 8 grand, be good for the lake. There are already some pretty damn quick versions from that Boatyard at Beer, only knaff things are the crap foils and of course the tin mast. But you can't tell them, like the bloody Contenderati they know what's best...

I am going to upset you now but it based on your advice, that they are bandits, thinking of trading the Streaker for a Laser. 

Even the humble Streaker plays on a skewed field. At the Nationals I was told that I didn’t stand a chance unless I am sailing a new boat with correctors. Now they are changing the boom and who knows what next. A Streaker of carbon out of class though fun is a waste of time. Crew weight however is critical, the lighter I get the luckier I get.

So for a fraction of the cost of a competitive Streaker I can get a competitive Laser and see how I actually do on a level playing field.

If I had the cash and still lived in the windy North I would be staying with the Streaker mind.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 19 at 7:57pm
Well its been windy every weekend so far this winter season and as much as I get lucky now and again, surviving is hardly racing and 6.5 sq mtrs would be an absolute doddle I reckon. But the only time I gave one a go it felt so, weather helm heavy which I put down to the blunt kitchen table foils.
Then last season we had a visitor witha Boatyards at Beer boat that you could see sat so much higher in the water even though the helm was heavier than the guy in the ply boat and it showed in boatspeed.
I'll be OK for a couple more years in the Solution, but I can see when the years do eventually catch up worse than they have to date, it'll be one for the future and there's a fair bit of activity down these parts, they've even had an open meeting at our place which I missed,and would have done if I could have blagged a boat.
They do need a carbon mast, they've gone with a carbon boom quite what that's all about I've no idea, the mast is more important than the bloody boom why they've gone for that just shows the typical dinghy waller nonesensical attitude imv.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 19 at 8:29pm
Originally posted by iGRF

Well its been windy every weekend so far this winter season and as much as I get lucky now and again, surviving is hardly racing and 6.5 sq mtrs would be an absolute doddle I reckon. But the only time I gave one a go it felt so, weather helm heavy which I put down to the blunt kitchen table foils.
Then last season we had a visitor witha Boatyards at Beer boat that you could see sat so much higher in the water even though the helm was heavier than the guy in the ply boat and it showed in boatspeed.
I'll be OK for a couple more years in the Solution, but I can see when the years do eventually catch up worse than they have to date, it'll be one for the future and there's a fair bit of activity down these parts, they've even had an open meeting at our place which I missed,and would have done if I could have blagged a boat.
They do need a carbon mast, they've gone with a carbon boom quite what that's all about I've no idea, the mast is more important than the bloody boom why they've gone for that just shows the typical dinghy waller nonesensical attitude imv.
 
Wooden boats are extremely hard to build down to weight and the new plastic ones are good.

The carbon boom ‘gives no tactical advantage’ but ‘makes it easier to gybe’ - personally that is a very major technical advantage. 

Carbon masts would just create a divide. The mast is not tapered (again about to change) so if, like the boom, if carbon mast was equivalent to a tin not sure what it would offer. It is sealed so unless it is a violent capsize you rarely get into too much trouble due to weight righting.

The board certainly could be improved on but also cost etc etc. 

 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 19 at 8:49pm
Why bother going from a parallel tin mast to a tapered one? It will certainly make the boat more manageable in a blow but they'll all need new sails too as the curve will be different. Might as well go for a carbon stick straight away.

When I was considering a Streaker I found an article where the current or recent National champion sad (something to the effect of) "we all know the Streaker is 'difficult' offwind in a blow" so I decided not to buy one. If they had a carbon rig I may reconsider.

WRT carbon booms, they hurt a lot less if you get it by one and that's enough to convince me of their value.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 19 at 9:00pm
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

Why bother going from a parallel tin mast to a tapered one? It will certainly make the boat more manageable in a blow but they'll all need new sails too as the curve will be different. Might as well go for a carbon stick straight away.
When I was considering a Streaker I found an article where the current or recent National champion sad (something to the effect of) "we all know the Streaker is 'difficult' offwind in a blow" so I decided not to buy one. If they had a carbon rig I may reconsider.
WRT carbon booms, they hurt a lot less if you get it by one and that's enough to convince me of their value.

The only boat to use that section parallel is the Streaker where as the tapered one is used in relatively big volumes in Europe so it is a supply issue.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 19 at 10:03pm
Fair enough, the only reason not to use tapered is cost so if supply is difficult then costs will escalate. I still think it is a missed opportunity to embrace carbon.

Blaze introduced a carbon mast a few years ago, the manufacturer claimed it had identical characteristics to the M7 tin mast and would perform identically. I have both now and the same sail seems to work well on either supporting the claim that the bend curve is the same. But the carbon mast is narrower and much lighter (2kg lighter in fact). The downside of the carbon stick is that, while the M7 was sealed, the carbon mast is not with an internal halyard, holes for the rigging terminals and non-blind rivets (and has less volume to start with) on the other fittings meaning it sinks much more quickly in a capsize.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 19 at 11:29pm
Why someboday hasn't standardised a mast and produced it in volume is so beyond me, the dinghy supply business is so pathetic and there is so much BS with claim and counter claim, all BS when you get down to the nitty gritty of their claims.
The class should just find a similar dimension boat, and nick their mast, then re cut the luff curve of the sail, it would have to be re-cut anyway, the whole point of carbon is the actual possibility of depower from the head and the excellent gust response from a tapered. Hell they should just rip that C2 rig from that little boat whose name escapes me, the junior international that get used everywhere else but here.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 19 at 5:16am
Originally posted by iGRF

Why someboday hasn't standardised a mast and produced it in volume is so beyond me, the dinghy supply business is so pathetic and there is so much BS with claim and counter claim, all BS when you get down to the nitty gritty of their claims.
The class should just find a similar dimension boat, and nick their mast, then re cut the luff curve of the sail, it would have to be re-cut anyway, the whole point of carbon is the actual possibility of depower from the head and the excellent gust response from a tapered. Hell they should just rip that C2 rig from that little boat whose name escapes me, the junior international that get used everywhere else but here.



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There is nothing wrong with the tin mast. Yes it doesn’t have gust response but not unmanageable with out. The tapered mast is undergoing tests and shows no discernible change. The tapered mast is off the VAURIEN which has numbers into 36,000s and very popular in Europe so easy to jump onto their volume.

Constantly messing about with traditional one design boat just drives the market towards SMODs

Edited by tink - 24 Dec 19 at 5:25am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote zeon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 19 at 12:28pm
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

Why bother going from a parallel tin mast to a tapered one? It will certainly make the boat more manageable in a blow but they'll all need new sails too as the curve will be different. Might as well go for a carbon stick straight away.

When I was considering a Streaker I found an article where the current or recent National champion sad (something to the effect of) "we all know the Streaker is 'difficult' offwind in a blow" so I decided not to buy one. If they had a carbon rig I may reconsider.

WRT carbon booms, they hurt a lot less if you get it by one and that's enough to convince me of their value.

After talking to a long term streaker sailor and class committee member I believe there is quite a lot of opposition to the change to a tapered mast . Even though the choice is a tapered mast or no masts at all ! Sailors can be a strange lot lol 

Re changing to carbon masts, there is one very good reason for not changing and that is cost. I know from looking into it with my class a couple of years ago. A that time a aliminium m1 tapered mast was @800 while a superspars carbon mast was about twice that . That’s a lot of money to spend lose less than two pounds in weight and when the only proformance advantage only happens in extreme conditions when I wouldnt be sailing anyway . On the other hand I did buy a carbon boom at that time  Smile

The advantages of carbon on unstayed masts are undeniable. To my mind the advantages on stayed masts are less clear cut, especially  if you factor in the extra cost. 



Edited by zeon - 24 Dec 19 at 12:33pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 19 at 1:05pm
Blaze carbon mast is twice the price of the M7 so I agree that cost is a significant factor. WRT weight saving the carbon stick is 2.5 kg lighter than the M7 on the Blaze so a good bit more than a couple of pounds. It's a significant saving and very noticeable when you are stepping the mast as well as on the water. The performance advantage kicks in for lighter sailors in F4+ so well before it becomes survival conditions and is more marked on gusty inland waters.

Edited by Sam.Spoons - 24 Dec 19 at 1:05pm
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