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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Foilers for sale
    Posted: 03 Mar 19 at 7:37pm
When it is clear that PY sailing revolves around 'Enterprise' 2 hander and 'Laser' single hander, where does the push for Foiling come from ?
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 19 at 6:04pm
TBF I would not be surprised is SMOD weights are made top by the advertising copywriters  LOL

We can be pretty sure a decent Merlin hull will actually weigh 98kg including CB, fittings and string. Who knows what a 400 actually weighs.....
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 19 at 3:13pm
They must have weighed one after a bizarre startline incident?
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 19 at 3:05pm
Sailing weight ex foredeck? What a bizarre thing to exclude!
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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 19 at 2:30pm
Originally posted by Daniel Holman

I’d be very very suprised if a 400 was 80kg Bare hull.
I’d be very suprised if a 200 was 80kg bare hull!

RS website says 88kg for RS400 hull weight.
I said 80+.

"Sailing weight (ex foredeck)129kg (284lb)"
from
https://www.rssailing.com/project/rs400/
I've never weighed a 400, there are some things you don't want to know.

The Merlin can be lighter to pull up a slipway, RS trolleys seem very heavy!
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Daniel Holman View Drop Down
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Posts: 997 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 19 at 11:59am
I’d be very very suprised if a 400 was 80kg Bare hull.
I’d be very suprised if a 200 was 80kg bare hull!
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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 19 at 11:38am
Originally posted by Daniel Holman

Originally posted by Sam.Spoons


I think the WL of the 400 has more to do with it than anything else, 400 has an extra foot, is a little lighter and carries more sail. It's also, probably, less technical to sail so reaching it's full potential is easier.
You also have to remember all those 'classic' Merlins bringing the PY down (ok I know that's a bit of a stretch  Wink )


Of course the old ones skew the handicap.
Is the 400 lighter? Merlin is 100kg hull with 20kg of lead typically.
Rs 400 is a production polyester boat that I think is pretty sturdy.
A foot of wl length trumps an awful lot of things.

The 400 is not much lighter, if at all.
The Merlin IIRC is 98kg, including centreboard and spaghetti.
The 400 is allegedly 80-something kg bare hull.
Merlin parts not included in the hull weight are mostly carbon and weigh a lot less than the corresponding RS400 bits.
A foot more waterline is indeed a nice thing to have, but the 400 is less than 15ft overall and the bow isn't vertical.
A well sailed Merlin is probably as quick as a 400 on average, unless the course suit the 400's kite. But well sailed Merlins tend to be seriously well sailed.

A modern Merlin, stretched to 15ft, less the 20kg of lead, with the 400's kite would be a nice boat....
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Daniel Holman View Drop Down
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Posts: 997 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 19 at 10:41am
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons


I think the WL of the 400 has more to do with it than anything else, 400 has an extra foot, is a little lighter and carries more sail. It's also, probably, less technical to sail so reaching it's full potential is easier.
You also have to remember all those 'classic' Merlins bringing the PY down (ok I know that's a bit of a stretch  Wink )


Of course the old ones skew the handicap.
Is the 400 lighter? Merlin is 100kg hull with 20kg of lead typically.
Rs 400 is a production polyester boat that I think is pretty sturdy.
A foot of wl length trumps an awful lot of things.
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 19 at 10:06am
I think the WL of the 400 has more to do with it than anything else, 400 has an extra foot, is a little lighter and carries more sail. It's also, probably, less technical to sail so reaching it's full potential is easier.

You also have to remember all those 'classic' Merlins bringing the PY down (ok I know that's a bit of a stretch  Wink )


Edited by Sam.Spoons - 03 Mar 19 at 10:07am
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 19 at 9:19am
Originally posted by tink

...Merlin Rocket, I hadn’t realised until yesterday that it was slower than the RS400 it inspired. 

It demonstrates just how thoroughly the Merlin's performance is slugged by its inefficient rig and hull restrictions. The counter intuitive is that those very factors have also kept it out of the high performance bracket and perhaps responsible for its sustained popularity.
Its a conundrum I've brought up in the past. How do you design a nice to sail light boat for heavier crews without it ending up too fast to be popular?
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