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PeterG View Drop Down
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    Posted: 14 Jan 19 at 9:16am
Originally posted by ttc546

We are long gone being an amateur, hobbyist Corinthian sport. Yes, it exists at club levels, but not at the higher levels of yachting, Olympics and other areas. Our august governing body needs to cater for both, and that means being professional, commercial and business-like. Sailing (and related nautical activities) requires professionals with business skills - not hobbyists anymore. If you dont think its now a business at many levels, you are dreaming of past glories of the 70's 

We need to grow up. Stop being amateur. Other activities are competing for our leisure time and that means we need to be more aggressive and business-like.

I think that depends on perspective. For the vast majority of sailors in the UK local, mostly volunteer run, clubs and class events are where it happens and what interests them. I have a bit of interest in Olympic sailing, major offshore events etc, but it's a mild interest. Sailing is getting out there and doing it, and working with others in my club to make it happen.

You are right that the RYA has to cater for both, and there's no doubt their increasingly professional approach has benefited the UK's Olympic sailing performance. But, I see that role as secondary to building up and supporting grassroots sailing, most of which is, and will remain, corinthian. I wouldn't argue that the RYA doesn't support that side of sailing at present, but I would say that should be the priority, and I don't think "stopping being amateur" is the way forward. The way forward is to support the amateurs who represent the vast majority of sailing, and the organisation of sailing, in the UK
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 19 at 7:39am
I was in the uni library today and quickly grabbed a sports management textbook. A quick flick confirmed once again how the would-be pros are taught to think. The contents were largely about things like staff management and professionalism. For example, there was a chapter about the upsurge in Australian Rules Football, complete with year-by-year stats for over a decade - but the stats referred only to (non playing) club membership and paid stadium attendance.  The actual participants and the volunteers who make it all happen didn't rate a mention.

When the people who specialise in sports management have that sort of attitude, why would a generalist manager/strategist be any better? 
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ttc546 View Drop Down
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Posts: 155 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ttc546 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 19 at 8:14am
Originally posted by Chris 249

When the people who specialise in sports management have that sort of attitude, why would a generalist manager/strategist be any better? 

Maybe BECAUSE they might NOT come from that background and entrenched way of thinking and therefore have a different perspective?

Maybe they MIGHT have that sports background, and lets hope they still have a different perspective and less entrenched views. Just requires maybe fresh blood to reinvigorate and refresh current ways of doing things that appear to not meet the approval of the old curmudgeons  ;-).

The new person might even ask the youngsters what THEY want, what THEY see as as future direction and barriers to overcome, and let the curmudgeons breathe their last gasp remembering halcyon days they dont seem to understand will never come back.




Edited by ttc546 - 15 Jan 19 at 8:19am
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 19 at 8:59am
Yes, they may not have an entrenched background but the balance of evidence I can see indicates that those who "drop in" to a sport, whether as a sports economist, a sports historian or sports manager, do normally concentrate on the elite. 

I'm fairly sure that many people at clubs and running junior classes have spent a lot of time asking young people what they want.

Sailing has been trying new ways doing things at a fairly furious rate, compared to the other sports I know. It has promoted canting keel boats, water ballasted boats, foilers, skiffs and sportsboats in a rush of technology that is not equalled by any sport I know. It has a very high level of gender balance in the major event controlled by World Sailing. It has changed Olympic events more over the last 30 or so years than any other sport I can think of - only two classes (M new 470) survive from the 1992 Games. 

It's hard to find any true evidence that sailing is held back by entrenched views. In fact given the repeated failure of much-hyped "revolutions" to catch hold, the issue may partly be that people who don't actually sail much are spending too much time disparaging the grass roots activities and hyping impractical ones for the sake of being cool. 
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Posts: 3401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 19 at 9:27am
In another place yesterday I spotted a post from a young woman student bemoaning the lack of political education at her school. Loads of people were jumping on the bandwagon saying yes lets have 'politics' classes at secondary school. I despair Angry the school curriculum (and day to day life) is riddled with politics, it's called History, Geography, Economics, PSE and many other subjects.

The relevance of this to our discussion becomes evident when we look at when UK politics, basically, drifted away from a (relatively) consensual system and became the spin ridden self serving place it is now. The problem was teaching people to be polititians in university. The last thing we need running the country is someone whose whole life experience consists of :- school, university, political researcher, campaign manager and, ultimately, MP. Political activists need to be passionate about the issue but the current crop are, mostly, not even passionate about politics...

For our sport to survive we need people running it who are passionate about boats not people who are passionate about business strategy. Sure some business strategy is useful but 'passionate about boats' is not negotiable IMO.
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Posts: 590 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 19 at 10:17am

Such moves and tendencies appear to be growing across many fields..  The seeming distain by some for ‘experts’ in many fields with pre-existing insight and experience in  specialist, niche or complex areas or sectors is frankly worrying.  That specialist sector experience should ever somehow disqualify individuals from key roles in the modern, increasingly bureaucratic, world is alarming.   The recruiters and myriad of consultants that increasingly litter public life would of course argue for the ‘gifted generalist’ .... well of course they would.    

There is a necessary balance between ‘generalist’ skills and sector specific experience and skills ... you would hope.  Disregard, by-pass and ignore the ‘experts’ if you don’t like or agree with what they might say – but then you must really take full responsibility for that decision if things then don’t work out quite as hoped or promised.

In 2019 they very often will not .... !



Edited by Cirrus - 15 Jan 19 at 10:20am
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 19 at 6:55pm
The way I would hope it would work would be that each department of the RYA would bring their specialist knowledge and experience to the table, and the strategist would be able to balance needs, requirements, budgets etc to put together the whole. At least that's how it would work with a properly functional management team. Of course there are such things as dysfunctional management teams...

The biggest problem IME is if you get a management team that thinks the specialists are too junior to listen to...

Edited by JimC - 15 Jan 19 at 7:10pm
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ttc546 View Drop Down
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Posts: 155 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ttc546 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 19 at 6:57pm
Originally posted by JimC

The way I would hope it would work would be that each department of the RYA would bring their specialist knowledge and experience to the table, and the strategist would be able to balance needs, requirements, budgets etc to put together the whole. At least that's how it would work with a properly functional management team. Of course there are such things as dysfunctional management teams...

Zackly! At last. someone who gets that each person brings their own expertise to the table.
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 19 at 10:16pm
Originally posted by ttc546


Originally posted by JimC

The way I would hope it would work would be that each department of the RYA would bring their specialist knowledge and experience to the table, and the strategist would be able to balance needs, requirements, budgets etc to put together the whole. At least that's how it would work with a properly functional management team. Of course there are such things as dysfunctional management teams...

Zackly! At last. someone who gets that each person brings their own expertise to the table.


And the person sitting at the table should be interested in the stuff they are talking about! Even have a modicum of understanding of the subject matter, to better form strategy.
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Posts: 611 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Noah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 19 at 8:40am
We had a mantra handed down from a commercial culture guru / management whizzo a zillion years ago: Decisions should be taken by someone who is a) interested; b) competent; c) qualified. b & c can be confused, but qualified - in this context - really means having the authority to take the decision.
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