GB Sailing Challenge - still confused

Originally posted by H2 Originally posted by turnturtle Originally posted by H2 Originally posted by turnturtle  I don’t doubt that statistically accuracy can be validated as better now than then, however does that neccessarily translate to better quality of racing....  I read H2’s last post- great stuff and a good read.  But out of that prose, nothing relating to the change of calculation formula, or indeed the handicap itself, suggested this played any part whatsoever in his enjoyment of the day.... therefore could it not be better than those boats closest enough ‘in category’ were actually racing for line honours, rather than some retrospective calculation? I dunno ... but my point is that that would actually be a qualititive experiment to genuinely carry out before writing off the concept altogether as ‘unworkable’.   But hang on - if it was not for some form of Handicap system I would not have been out sailing against 100+ random people on Draycote. It was the handicap system that enabled me to turn up and take part, otherwise it was just a random days sailing on a lake in the midlands. However flawed the system is it enabled me to have a great days sailing! True - although the irony of it is that the handicap system bore (little to) no impact on said day; so in effect, all you were doing was a day out sailing with 100+ random people in the midlands whether you like to admit it or not.    That being the case, why not ditch the handicap system altogether and just arrange it like a festival of sailing in broadly aligned categories, free from this overly analytical BS that is supposedly the future of dinghy sailing?   Lets just agree to disagree. To me it was a great day. To you it was a waste of time. Perhaps that is why I showed up and you (I presume) did not.  Future of sailing or not, at least 100+ boats showed up and only the Toppers had more people at their Nationals with the RS200, Solo and some RS Youth fleet getting close on turnout. My point is that people seem to be voting with their feet and showing up to Handicap races in a way that they are not for fleet racing. Maybe you'll have to give it a try soon?

I never said it was a waste of time, I simply point out the bleeding obvious that tinkering yet further with the handicap system will not change the fundamental issues with it. I know draycote run a good event ... and the wind played ball, so no not a waste of time. Just a nice day of sailing all the better for a good class turnout in your case - but when it comes to the actual racing, i just put emphasis on your well written descriptions of the boat on boat interaction than I would on the spreadsheet- interestingly the oringianl article referenced in the OP doesn’t even link to the results, so it not like the author is putting much emphasis on it either 😘

I enjoy handicap racing, I just started the thread to understand how the new system works because the article describing it is short on detail. One advantage I can see of judging you on your best lap is that you are never out of it even with a bad start and a capsize at the leeward mark, you just need one good lap. The disadvantage is that you can’t even guess how you have done against the opposition until the spreadsheet spits the results out.
The most appropriate handicap system depends on the event. If you want to attract the best sailors to come you need to give them a fair (equal) chance of winning. If you want the middle rankers to show up you maybe need to randomise the results a bit more (to give a chance of outperforming their expectations).

Originally posted by Sam.Spoons Yup well said. The handicapping at Leigh & Lowton s well established and proven so I don't think there's much will to try something radical. We have 100 boats (as of week 3) entered our Open Winter series' across 5 fleets (Assy, Junior, Handicap, Laser and Solo) with 50+ on the water last Sunday.

The handicapping at Leigh & Lowton s well established and proven so I don't think there's much will to try something radical. We have 100 boats (as of week 3) entered our Open Winter series' across 5 fleets (Assy, Junior, Handicap, Laser and Solo) with 50+ on the water last Sunday.

Edited by Sam.Spoons - 26 Nov 18 at 5:12pm

Originally posted by H2 Originally posted by turnturtle  I don’t doubt that statistically accuracy can be validated as better now than then, however does that neccessarily translate to better quality of racing....  I read H2’s last post- great stuff and a good read.  But out of that prose, nothing relating to the change of calculation formula, or indeed the handicap itself, suggested this played any part whatsoever in his enjoyment of the day.... therefore could it not be better than those boats closest enough ‘in category’ were actually racing for line honours, rather than some retrospective calculation? I dunno ... but my point is that that would actually be a qualititive experiment to genuinely carry out before writing off the concept altogether as ‘unworkable’.   But hang on - if it was not for some form of Handicap system I would not have been out sailing against 100+ random people on Draycote. It was the handicap system that enabled me to turn up and take part, otherwise it was just a random days sailing on a lake in the midlands. However flawed the system is it enabled me to have a great days sailing!

Edited by turnturtle - 26 Nov 18 at 4:55pm