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    Posted: 02 Nov 18 at 1:50pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iT5bPEc7KEI

I would love that with mad Luca's face superimposed  LOL LOL LOL LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 18 at 1:02pm
Originally posted by Daniel Holman


The guy has to wet his beak, capice?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 18 at 12:59pm
Mozzy.
I’ll be honest I don’t know - I would imagine closer to bethwaite model but I don’t know. The other way ie rs laser has more revenue but more “hassle” I guess.
Not sure re Luca’s order of preference of outcomes, but he looks to be backing two horses in a race, similar to ovi with aura and fx, which is just sound business sense.
The guy has to wet his beak, capice?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 18 at 12:53pm
Dan, you will know better than I, but the licensed builders for D-Zero, are they licensed in the sense that RS licence hull, spar, sail and foil manufactures, but there is still only one vendor... RS. So even if two manufactures are licensed the RS monopoly is preserved (within the RS class). I.e. if there is a second builder of D-Zeros, will they still be sold through Devoti? 

Or is it more like the Behtwaite model where builder-vendors are licensed and can compete on price (in theory)?

It would seem even if Luca and Devoti go down the Bethwaite route then there is a conflict of interest where they are choosing who will compete against them in a duopoly.

I'm still unclear whether Luca's legal intervention is aimed getting the laser reviewed, so the D-Zero can be considered, or whether it's a retaliation to the threat against the Finn. 


Edited by mozzy - 02 Nov 18 at 12:55pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 18 at 12:45pm
Originally posted by Fatboi


Originally posted by mozzy

More on the anti-trust thing... seems like it's blowing up in WS face. Seemed the challenge has come from Luca Devoti. 
The question is, if the DZero got selected, would Devoti then be prepared to open up the manufacture to anybody else? 

Told you!!  Wink
Of course he would. Imagine a royalty on a boat that is as popular as the laser compared to building the D-Zero. No offence to the D-Zero, but literally money for nothing now that the work has happened is the dream! 
Well played Luca... No where is that missing Finn he used for Sydney that was never measured or seen after the games....!! 


Royalty is typically a small percentage of profit margin ie the difference between sale price and cost price. The rest used to service sales costs, investment, amortisation, marketing, warranty etc.
Royalty is fixed percentage of cost price.
Obv if sales volume went up from tens a year to hundreds a year builder benefit from economies of scale so the cost price comes down a fair bit. All the economics look much better, ie more profit per boat one would expect.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 18 at 12:41pm
Originally posted by JimC

'course what's so ironic is that Signor Devoti is also seeking to preserve his monopoly...

No. Devoti enjoys strong sales in an open market due to it being a meritocracy. Not same as a monopoly.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 18 at 12:38pm
Originally posted by Chris 249


So does that mean that anyone can now turn up and make a D-One and D-Zero?
This is pretty poor from Devoti, IMHO. Sailors of the world have spoken and many of them prefer SMODs. So too do many national authorities. Why should World Sailing be unable to reflect the desires of so many members in the biggest event?
It's interesting that the EU is getting so involved. It's only one group of nations. Wonder what right they have to effectively veto a sporting body that is largely made up of nations from outside the EU?



I very much doubt “anyone” can build them I imagine licences builders per territory to satisfy demand / volume, in a similar way to your favourite smod.
That said maybe the offer is to open it to builders who knows.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote GarethT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 18 at 12:01pm
Don’t laser and their builders just have to agree that they can sell in each other’s territories (and maybe license another builder or 2)?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 18 at 11:53am
Originally posted by mozzy

Originally posted by rodney

Originally posted by Chris 249

So does that mean that anyone can now turn up and make a D-One and D-Zero?
 

Other builders would have to be licenced by World Sailing!

Is that true?

I thought it was a typical SMOD where the hull need to built to builder specification by anyone licensed by the LIC (Licence holder and Devoti?)... so just the same as 9ers and RS and not too dissimilar to Laser? 

I don't see where they need to WS to licence a builder. 

So Luca has a monopoly on the D-One.......???????
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 18 at 11:52am
Originally posted by Bootscooter

Chris - although I'm pretty ambivalent about SMODs (though as a Finn sailor I appreciate being able to tailor my rig/spar/foil choices to my size and weight), the point is that yes - many people chose to sail SMODs. Olympic sailors don't so are therefore 'forced' to buy from a monopolised market, which *may* be illegal under European law.

This issue is amplified when you look away from the Laser and more towards the 49er and FX (duopoly) and Nacra, where the classes are virtually non-existent outside of Olympic campaigns, with most of those boats being discarded campaign craft originally. These classes have a business model of selling (almost) exclusively to campaigners in a captive and monopolistic market.

As I said, I'm not desperately excited either way on the argument, but I find Kim Anderson's response earlier this week in the interview with Richard Gladwell comical, saying that (paraphrasing) '22 of the 23 Finns at Rio were Devoti, so that's *like* a monopoly'.

Doesn't inspire faith in our governing body....

Yes, I get your point, especially when so many Olympic classes are SMODs. But on the other hand, when so many SMODs are sold, surely some should be allowed in the Games, because that means the Games reflect the type of wider sport.  If no SMOD was allowed in the Games then they would not be representative of the sport.

I think you're right about Anderson, who I find to be an extremely disappointing WS head.

I appreciate the importance of small suppliers; it's a complex subject. One thing I do note is that when I did an analysis of class marketing from the '70s dinghy boom it was apparent that the small suppliers spent a lot more on marketing the "normal" one designs. Y&Y's boat show issue was full of big ads for "normal" one designs, paid for by the sailmakers, builders and sparmakers who were involved in those classes. That support meant that the "normal" ODs and development classes often seem to have had the same marketing budget as the SMODs. Perhaps the current dominance of SMODs is because the small suppliers no longer seem to support other classes in the same way?
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