Amateur Sailor of the Year

Originally posted by laser47 We've got to a point where, according to this poll, the frontrunning nominee for an 'amatuer' award gained their nomination due to results achieved with two crews; one in that grey area of amateurism (derives 100% of income from a technical sailing role, sails 4 or 5 days a week, etc).

I suppose it cuts both ways, you were third in the Endeavour 'cos the first two places were filled by Ben Ainsley and Iain Percy or you won the Endeavour but only 'cos Ben and Iain didn't enter.......

Originally posted by Sam.Spoons Originally posted by laser47 We've got to a point where, according to this poll, the frontrunning nominee for an 'amatuer' award gained their nomination due to results achieved with two crews; one in that grey area of amateurism (derives 100% of income from a technical sailing role, sails 4 or 5 days a week, etc). That's not a grey area however you look at it, sails 4/5 days a week, 100% income from a technical sailing role? Pro. beyond any shadow. If common sense is allowed to prevail the sailmaker who races at weekend and makes sails during the week is probably a little better than the typical amateur but he earns his crust with a sewing machine not a tiller......

Grey area being he's still earning his money in a customer services role, albeit one advising people how to make their boat go better, and sailing around work. He's not directly paid to sail or train. He feels, as do several people here apparently, that to be a pro sailor you should be full time paid to sail and train.

Interesting that you draw a line for sailmakers, do crispy sails not give you an advantage over a set with a year or so's hard racing? Then what about one of the sailmaker/jockeys who develop, engineer and test incredibly technical sails, does their understanding not help them set their sails up optimally?

Originally posted by JimC Originally posted by laser47 You guys might not count certain industry employees as pros but World Sailing (and the RRS) do. The theory being that you only... My understanding was that the flagrant cheating and manipulation of supposed amateur status in the pre professional days ('sailmakers' who couldn't tell one end of a needle from the other) convinced ISAF that it was pointless trying to make a distinction on any basis other than who pays the salary. I greatly fear they are correct.

Not quite. As WS are concerned there's actually quite a lot of distinctions on what constitutes pro sailing [Regulations, Appendix 4 part 22??]. However they probably shouldn't have wasted their time as most sailors do indeed see it as "currently paid to race and train full time = pro sailor."

Originally posted by JimC I'd hate to see UK dinghy sailing get mired in the whole pro/amateur b******s... And consider the case of someone who was a squad member say 18 months ago and has given that all up and just sails recreationally now, but still spends the time in the gym... I'd much rather see other Olympic Squad members to do their class nationals in the UK and roll up to give Mr Saxton some competition...

Originally posted by mozzy Originally posted by laser47 You guys might not count certain industry employees as pros but World Sailing (and the RRS) do. Originally posted by JimC   My understanding was that the flagrant cheating and manipulation of supposed amateur status in the pre professional days ('sailmakers' who couldn't tell one end of a needle from the other) convinced ISAF that it was pointless trying to make a distinction on any basis other than who pays the salary. I greatly fear they are correct. Class 3 includes "has been paid for work (except coaching), in a marine business or organization which require knowledge or skill: (i) that is capable of enhancing the performance of a boat in a race; and (ii) which can be utilized by the competitor whilst on board a boat when racing; https://members.sailing.org/tools/documents/ClassificationCodeJanuary2015English-[18706">.pdf Originally posted by laser47 We've got to a point where, according to this poll, the frontrunning nominee for an 'amatuer' award gained their nomination due to results achieved with two crews; one in that grey area of amateurism (derives 100% of income from a technical sailing role, sails 4 or 5 days a week, etc) I'm not sure knowing how to make blocks is a skill that can be utilised whilst on board a boat when racing.  I'm also not sure he sails 4/5 days a week. He sails weekends and week nights and works 9-5.  Originally posted by laser47 the other a card-carrying pro sailor. True, but you make it sound like Maria is buying in pro crews. One's her mate and the other is her boyfriend who is standing in whilst the regular crew has an injury.  Besides, it's Maria who's been nominated. The award has nothing to do with WS sailor classifications.  Originally posted by Sam.Spoons I suppose it cuts both ways, you were third in the Endeavour 'cos the first two places were filled by Ben Ainsley and Iain Percy or you won the Endeavour but only 'cos Ben and Iain didn't enter....... So... if we get rid of the pros can I say won?  I might be changing my mind!

I didn't mean to sound like she's buying crews in, she hasn't, she's known them both since they were kids and she and Rob have worked bleedin' hard this year to achieve the results they have in the 200 (Rob sails Monday, Wednesday and Thursday evenings and all weekend for most of the year). However, it is a two person boat and if half the boat is only technically amateur can it still be considered an amateur victory. Here it comes down to how much value you place on crew.

IMHO Knowing how to get the best out of your hardware, optimise systems and when to service or replace bits so they don't fail during a race and hurt your performance, even being able to do a fix double quick between races, is a definate advantage over the course of a championship - Olympic Golds have been won and lost by crews' understanding of their systems. Even just the McLube knowledge could save a tonne of energy over the course of a windy day which would have a massive knock-on effect to performance over a regatta. If there wasn't hardware advantage to be had people wouldn't spend so much time and money on it!