New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: A new class of dinghy?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

A new class of dinghy?
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 56789 54>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Rupert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 04
Location: Whitefriars sc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: A new class of dinghy?
    Posted: 01 Sep 18 at 9:30pm
The main competition for the Aero 2 would be the 200 and 400. Why would RS do that? None of their grp singlehanded boats were that successful before the Aero.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 18 at 4:40pm
Originally posted by JimC

Boy, was I ever wrong. The popularity of the high performance boats has plummeted since then. Its almost as if those youngsters are stepping out of the 29er, and saying, with obvious exceptions, "B*****r that for a game of soldiers, never again". I'm at a loss to explain it, but can't ignore it.
I think the popularity of high performance boats has plummeted because after the fad, they actually aren't very well suited to a lot of smaller waters and take far more time to get good at than the average person has availible nowadays. 

I don't think anyone is put off HP boats by the 29er. Quite the opposite. I just think those 29er sailors are prioritising social and accessibility over how fun the boat is... and end up in 200s!

Originally posted by JimC

 
However consider the average club sailor probably does about 1.1 opens a year (his club, and 1 in 10 travel) then points 1,2 scarcely apply, 3 and 4a are de-emphasised and there's a bunch more emphasis on the design.
If you only club race at a small club, then the boat you sail isn't going to massively change who you meet sailing, so I accept that. But, at bigger clubs the fleet you sail in will make a difference of who you rig next to in the boat park who you discuss your race with at the bar. But that's at a club big enough to form those social cliches. 

But, catching up with old friends at the 1.1 open event a year is a big thing for a lot of people. 

2, I think is most important for a club racer. If I don't have access to a club locally I can class race at, I don't think I'd sail the boat. Basically, what boat is raced at a local club that I can afford and be roughly the right size for (I know that line of thinking has caused controversy in the past). 

I don't see how 3 is de-emphasised for those not doing opens. I think broad skills like boat speed / tuning, boat handling, teamwork, fitness. A lot of boats are fundamentally very similar here, hence we get sailors who do well in a range of classes.

I think mostly people think pretty rationally, and therefore specific design doesn't matter too much. However, these specifics of the design are often some of the most tangible parts, of the decision tree and I think sometimes people put undue focus on them. 

Of course, you're always going to get proper boat geeks who will prioritise the boat and love it, and the rest be damned. And if you're having fun, then you made the right choice. 




Edited by mozzy - 02 Sep 18 at 4:42pm
Back to Top
423zero View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 08 Jan 15
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 18 at 7:49pm
Try this one, don't know how you get on in a capsize ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3QE01xWrAQ
Back to Top
Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 07 Mar 12
Location: Manchester UK
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 18 at 7:58pm
Tiny rig, a bit of ballast and some common sense I guess. there are a couple of similar boats at Leigh & Lowton that seem to work well enough in the right conditions.....
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
Back to Top
Chris 249 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 10 May 04
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Sep 18 at 4:21am
Originally posted by Oli

an aero for two people with 3 rig sizes: 

1) cadet/mirror mode
2) n12/rs200
3) merlin/rs400

kite or no kite but if kite then option for either sym or asy.

asking a lot of one platform but not asking it to be a master in any one format.


The NS14 singlehander/NS14 standard/MG14/Sportskiff is pretty similar. The NS14 is of course the boat the Icon and Tasar was developed from. It now basically shares hull design and working sails with the MG14, which also has an assy and spinnaker. The Sportskiff was a short-lived effort to build an MG14 with bigger sails for bigger sailors, and it seemed to work OK. The NS14 was also sailed for a while in singlehanded form, although it was actually no quicker than a Laser because of the excessive hull volume.

The NS14 is certainly a master in its normal format, and the MG14 class has gained or held numbers when other classes have faded. So it seems that you can get a boat that runs OK in a couple of formats.
sailcraftblog.wordpress.com

The history and design of the racing dinghy.
Back to Top
jeffers View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 29 Mar 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Sep 18 at 7:24am
Originally posted by Daniel Holman

Originally posted by A2Z

I think there’s a gaping hole for an Aero 2. Basically a Tasar with a fixed carbon mast and no pole. What the Icon could have been but it got too big and hi tech when smaller, simpler, cheaper and more accessible would have hit a bigger market.


I think that icon was accessible no? Was it not “enterprise easy” to sail? Looked to be perfectly accessible to me. Wasn’t massive either was it Cant have even been 15ft. For reasons mentioned by Jim a boat to fit the op brief couldn’t be much smaller else you’d get ns14 or n12 or even rs 200 twitchy.
Dare say if it had been launched from scratch by rs and not altered so much publically ie confusing the offering it would have sold 100 + a year for the last 6 year or however long it’s been.
Minor styling / oem equipment aside it looked philosophically like a 2 handed aero to me.
Dan

As one of the few here who sailed a Icon. it was a quick boat, relatively vice free although the dangly pole took a bot of getting used to it was definitely not fiddly just an extra thing to remember. Easy to rig and fun to sail.

It should have done better than it did but there were other issues which are not my place to air.
Paul
----------------------
D-Zero GBR 74
Back to Top
Oli View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 23 Mar 05
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1020 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Oli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Sep 18 at 8:22am
Originally posted by Rupert

The main competition for the Aero 2 would be the 200 and 400. Why would RS do that? None of their grp singlehanded boats were that successful before the Aero.

to cut down production and tooling costs.
T-SHIRTS
PRINTS
Back to Top
turnturtle View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 05 Dec 14
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Sep 18 at 8:36am
Originally posted by Chris 249

Originally posted by Oli

an aero for two people with 3 rig sizes: 

1) cadet/mirror mode
2) n12/rs200
3) merlin/rs400

kite or no kite but if kite then option for either sym or asy.

asking a lot of one platform but not asking it to be a master in any one format.


The NS14 singlehander/NS14 standard/MG14/Sportskiff is pretty similar. The NS14 is of course the boat the Icon and Tasar was developed from. It now basically shares hull design and working sails with the MG14, which also has an assy and spinnaker. The Sportskiff was a short-lived effort to build an MG14 with bigger sails for bigger sailors, and it seemed to work OK. The NS14 was also sailed for a while in singlehanded form, although it was actually no quicker than a Laser because of the excessive hull volume.

The NS14 is certainly a master in its normal format, and the MG14 class has gained or held numbers when other classes have faded. So it seems that you can get a boat that runs OK in a couple of formats.


The singlehanded format was what really interested me with the Icon - I don't think there's been any really good large single handers which can handle an occasional crew properly, or vice versa.... certainly not in monohulls.   Now there's probably good reason for that so far, but it's a design attribute that I don't think I'm alone in wanting to see available. 

I'm also guessing for those with NS14s and using them singlehanded, being quicker than a Laser really wasn't that much of an objective - it would have been versatility from just one boat.  But if as I suspect, anything similar in the Northern hemisphere it would be a bit of billy no mates class - especially within the context of local club racing, then it would need to have enough about it in terms of sailing experience to really make the transition from whatever the local fleet race option is worth it.    
Back to Top
Dougaldog View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 05 Nov 10
Location: hamble
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 356 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougaldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Sep 18 at 10:37am
Jeffers,

+1! 

It should have done better than it did but there were other issues which are not my place to air.

Spot on...I too sailed the Icon and would agree with all the points that you made. I'd also add that for the potential target market for the boat that it was just too much of a 'sit on' rather than a 'sit in' hull form - that knees under your chin whilst your arse is dragging over the side just didn't do it for me and for those I talked with after sailing the boat.

Any new boat doesn't need to be a rocket ship (which under the right conditions I'm sure the Icon was) but it does have to be capable of doing the light airs inland and the rough open water stuff with equal flair -unless of course, as with some new designs, you are aiming the boat at a more overseas market

Dougal
Dougal H
Back to Top
jeffers View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 29 Mar 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Sep 18 at 12:19pm
Originally posted by Dougaldog

Jeffers,

+1! 

It should have done better than it did but there were other issues which are not my place to air.

Spot on...I too sailed the Icon and would agree with all the points that you made. I'd also add that for the potential target market for the boat that it was just too much of a 'sit on' rather than a 'sit in' hull form - that knees under your chin whilst your arse is dragging over the side just didn't do it for me and for those I talked with after sailing the boat.

Any new boat doesn't need to be a rocket ship (which under the right conditions I'm sure the Icon was) but it does have to be capable of doing the light airs inland and the rough open water stuff with equal flair -unless of course, as with some new designs, you are aiming the boat at a more overseas market

Dougal

Was quick enough on my local puddle even with a muppet like me on the helm. We managed to beat one of our quick fireballs over the water. then again when I raced Lasers against the helm we were usually pretty close together (and we didnt have a spinny to mess with).
Paul
----------------------
D-Zero GBR 74
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 56789 54>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy