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Dougaldog View Drop Down
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    Posted: 28 Aug 18 at 1:10pm
There have been challengers for the Laser since the very early days of the class, some of which were actually very good boats in their own right - boats that under other circumstances would have been good candidates for the position the Laser occupies today. Some were even better than the Laser but for a variety of often complex and multi-faceted reasons, the success story that was the Laser just carried on growing. Comments along the lines of "There's big constituency who just don't like Lasers" are often misleading, for whilst there may be a sizeable number here in the UK that would rather sail something else - and do - you do not have to travel far from these shores to get a very different perspective. Those of us who are more advanced in years can remember what the single handed scene was like before the laser; no wonder we loved it so much and bought them in such big numbers, for the boat was simply better than the available alternatives 'at that time'. Move away from the major sail racing nations and the choice is the Laser - or some lumpen local class that is going nowhere. 

Would WS really bite the bullet and put the skids under the Laser. If the Trials go ahead ( which in itself is a BIG if) but if they do....then yes, it could happen, after all, stranger things have gone on in the world of the IYRU/ISAF and now WS Committee rooms. Equally, you could get the bizarre situation where the Trials go ahead, a new boat is chosen, only for the Laser to stay in place,

Currently I'm re-writing Hooked On, the book telling the story of the International Contender. In the decade since I wrote the first edition, a lot more in the way of detail has come my way. Suffice to say that back in 1968, after the third and final set of Trials had seen the Contender top of the pack, the IYRU didn't just offer the boat full international status, but a place at the 1972, 76 and 80 Olympics. So there precedents are there...… let's wait and see!

Dougal/Y&Y and All at Sea.  


Edited by Dougaldog - 28 Aug 18 at 1:11pm
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 18 at 1:42pm
Originally posted by Dougaldog


]Currently I'm re-writing Hooked On, the book telling the story of the International Contender. I


How's that going?

'Once upon a time they decided to build a really heavy boat with added lead, a big centreboard and a boom so low a mouse would have trouble tacking it, but once it did, it went upwind like a train, providing there's a great tall lump of something or other hanging off a wire attached near the top of the mast.

It has a big floppy old sail and a long stick to wiggle.'

The End.

Edited by iGRF - 28 Aug 18 at 1:51pm
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blueboy View Drop Down
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Posts: 512 		Post Options Post Options   Quote blueboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 18 at 1:52pm
Originally posted by sandgrounder

To claim that the Laser is likely to be displaced anytime soon is specious at best.
Sure, RS have done a great job selling 1,700 boats over the 5 seasons since inception, an average of 340 boats per year, with production spiking some time back.

Firstly, I don't think anyone is making that claim.

Secondly, where do you get the figure of 1,700? AFAIK it is closer to 2,700.
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blueboy View Drop Down
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Posts: 512 		Post Options Post Options   Quote blueboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 18 at 2:08pm
Originally posted by Dougaldog

. Comments along the lines of "There's big constituency who just don't like Lasers" are often misleading, for whilst there may be a sizeable number here in the UK that would rather sail something else - and do - you do not have to travel far from these shores to get a very different perspective. 

Or you could travel a bit further and get yet another one. One of the moving forces in organising the NA Laser class in former years is now sailing an Aero. 
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sandgrounder View Drop Down
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Posts: 220 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sandgrounder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 18 at 2:10pm
Originally posted by blueboy


Originally posted by sandgrounder

To claim that the Laser is likely to be displaced anytime soon is specious at best.
Sure, RS have done a great job selling 1,700 boats over the 5 seasons since inception, an average of 340 boats per year, with production spiking some time back.

Firstly, I don't think anyone is making that claim.
Secondly, where do you get the figure of 1,700? AFAIK it is closer to 2,700.


Firstly, I think cirrus is making that claim:-

"The Aero is doing fantastically well, is properly established already, is well funded and managed and is rapidly looking to be to be a viable long term challenge. It is now probably too late for the L@ser owners to react without some real damage to its apparent long term cash-cow policy. (Rule 101 - never underestimate competitors or really believe your own propaganda)...... Market leadership really can lead to eventual market replacement if you don't take real care. The consequences of not reacting appropriately when challenged in this position can be terminal. "

Secondly, that's not correct. The aero numbering convention was such that boat #1 was actually numbered as boat #1000, so 1,700 boats sold



Edited by sandgrounder - 28 Aug 18 at 2:19pm
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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 18 at 2:28pm
Originally posted by blueboy

Originally posted by sandgrounder

To claim that the Laser is likely to be displaced anytime soon is specious at best.
Sure, RS have done a great job selling 1,700 boats over the 5 seasons since inception, an average of 340 boats per year, with production spiking some time back.

Firstly, I don't think anyone is making that claim.

Secondly, where do you get the figure of 1,700? AFAIK it is closer to 2,700.

Highest sail number at the nationals seems to be around 2700.
Mysterious lack of anything in 3 figures, I assume they started at 1000?

But let's not knock the achivement of selling 1,700 boats. It's great that RS have done this.
Selling 3 figure numbers of Zeros is not to be sniffed at either, putting 40+ competitive boats on the start line for a nationals looks a lot like critical mass to me?
There are a lot of established classes which would be happy with that.

Have the sales figures of 'eros impacted other classes particularly? Are they cornering the 'anything but Laser market' or taking sales mostly from Laser?
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sandgrounder View Drop Down
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Posts: 220 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sandgrounder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 18 at 2:50pm
Originally posted by RS400atC


Have the sales figures of 'eros impacted other classes particularly? Are they cornering the 'anything but Laser market' or taking sales mostly from Laser?


Looking at the 2018 D-Zero Nationals at Plymouth, ~35% of the fleet are ex Laser sailors, with the remainder coming from a wide mix of classes. I think the same is pretty much true at club level around the country.

For the aero I think the ratio of ex Laser sailors is significantly lower, with 1 or 2 "squad" level Laser sailors dropping into charter boats for Nationals / Worlds.

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Dougaldog View Drop Down
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Posts: 356 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougaldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 18 at 3:01pm
Originally posted by iGRF

Originally posted by Dougaldog


]Currently I'm re-writing Hooked On, the book telling the story of the International Contender. I


How's that going?

'Once upon a time they decided to build a really heavy boat with added lead, a big centreboard and a boom so low a mouse would have trouble tacking it, but once it did, it went upwind like a train, providing there's a great tall lump of something or other hanging off a wire attached near the top of the mast.

It has a big floppy old sail and a long stick to wiggle.'

The End.
 

Graeme - nah, your problem, being a short arse, is that you can't reach the better books on the top shelf so are left with the Janet and John album rather than grown up reading.
The book you really want to read has a story that goes...

IYRU find that they're stuck with a weighty barge, complete with a metal centreboard.
It takes them almost 4 years and 3 set of Trials, but they finally, for once, get it right and chose the boat that moved the sport forward.
(at this point we have to remind Igfr that in this pre-windsurfing world, 1967-68, the Contender was just about as radical as it was possible to be - back then)
Having selected their new boat, the IYRU all but throw it under a bus to preserve the position of their existing weighty barge.
A total screw up happens, right out of the Igrf play book, that see's the Contender given a sh*te PY in the UK.
New boat sees off windsurfer challenge, the RS600 and other wannabes (with the exception of the equally superb MPS) and 50 years later, gets 120+ boats for Europeans, 150+ for Worlds, with genuine international support (not a fleet of brits and a token foreign wallah to give the event some faint credibility on the International circuit)
Boat seems happy to carry a good weight range, is bullet proof so lasts well, sailors love it and with the backing of a good Class Association, the fleet is stable.
50th Anniversary coming up, 50th worlds in 2020 - and best of all? If iGRF didn't have duck's disease (ie, his arse is too near the ground) this IS the boat that he'd be sailing....
Do you want a mention in the book then Graeme?

D
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Cirrus View Drop Down
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Posts: 590 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 18 at 4:15pm
Sandowner

No I'm not making any special claims for the Aero – this growing RS success is just one symptom of the tectonic plates starting to shift under the Laser.  Furthermore to suggest things cannot ever ever change and that the Laser is the only kid in town anymore is frankly living in the past.  If I was controlling Laser strategy I'd be getting concerned by now .. .and if I was not .. well that's the real point that was being made surely.  

FYI I've owned more than half a dozen Lasers, my first way back at the beginning of the 70’s  .. so quite a few years back, and don't currently own an Aero nor am I likely to do anytime soon.  

But would I enjoy a Laser today ? - Almost certainly NO !  Well how could I at the current pricing levels ?   The observation is that ‘Laser’ perhaps need to start looking over their shoulders.  Sh*t I remember when the Tasar was dropped 'because it was only selling 500 units per year' ... and replaced it with the Laser II.   There are other examples. 

Surely by now they need to be far more than simply a 'one trick pony' largely living on essentially what was originally a 1960’s product line.   



Edited by Cirrus - 28 Aug 18 at 4:18pm
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sandgrounder View Drop Down
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Posts: 220 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sandgrounder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 18 at 5:16pm
Thanks Sirrius, you make my point. If I had a ubiquitous product from the early 70s, tooling and production facilities fully amortised and still outselling my nearest competitor by a factor of 10:1, with 3,000 boats shipped globally every year, in addition to double Olympic status, why on earth would I change anything? The class appears to evolve at a manageable rate which seems to satisfy the vast global family of users.

To change all of that would be like asking the surviving members of Pink Floyd to re-record Dark Side of The Moon, and then forego any royalties on the original.


Edited by sandgrounder - 28 Aug 18 at 5:31pm
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