Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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List classes of boat for sale |
Fireballs Nationals |
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Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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Mozzy, picture a handicap race on the sea, medium to light winds, like we often get. Go round the top mark and head downwind. Slow symmetric boat can choose, go straight there, or more likely, head up a few degrees to get flow over the kite, and off you go. Slow asymmetric kite, once hoisted, luff to get kite to fill, spend the whole leg trying to bear away whilst keeping speed up, but the boat slows, you have to luff again to keep the sail pulling. For me, that is very frustrating. The boat has been designed to deliberately have an area I can't sail in down wind, but the only tactic is trying to sail low, because the extra distance isn't made up for by the gain in speed.
The effect is certainly less in a nimble boat like the 200, and in "champagne" conditions there is nothing more fun than bearing off in a big gust and going like a train, even in something like a Feva. But for me (especially sailing on a pond, where the effects are magnified) the frustration and lack of tactical choice in boring weather puts me off. If the wind is right, I can always crew, rent or borrow a 2000 or the like and have lots of fun. |
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Pierre ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 15 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1532 |
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Totally agree with you Rupert. Marvellous
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How many sports do you pack someone off to a national championships who is new to sport?What conclusions could you possibly make about the boats? Don't get me wrong, I agree asymmetric can be more accessible to get a downwind sail up for absolute beginners. Generally it's easier to get a crew for a 200 or 400, as the unique skills are less. But in terms of getting a crew for a national event, I'm not sure this stacks up. So I just don't get how this relates to the sudden drop we see in the fireball fleet. Unless you are seriously proposing that 50% of the fireball national fleet has been made up by helms picking up never before fireball crews just for nationals, and then suddenly in 2018 all those boat realised it was easier to do this in an asymmetric? I wouldn't rule it out for a long term decline, from club racing and open sailing up, but this sounds far fetched to be attributed to just this year. Clashes with school holidays, clashes with similar classes, other week long regattas in the year, poor venue choice, poor social programme, sudden increased cost can all lead to a sudden drop in attendance.
I don't get this, it is the type of waters and courses which make asymmetric frustrating, not the size or speed of the boat. Asymmetric are superb on slower boats, but you just have to realise that the boat is going to be better for fleet racing on open waters. And swinging poles are still a stupid idea. The thing that makes asymmetric sailing good downwind in fleets is how the fleet spreads across the course. A swinging pole is counterproductive to this. Plus if everyone has it, and uses it in the same way, it just becomes a chore. Just look at the huge popularity of this type of boat in 200s, 400s, fevas, then all the many sportsboats. |
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Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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The guys who designed asymmetric Spinnakers could see what happens to symmetric Spinnakers when speeds increased to the point where sailing near to ddw wasn't worthwhile anymore. Other people appear to have just seen the set up and added it to boats far to slow to benefit. On these boats it makes things easy to use (a big extra jib) which is where taking a beginner out becomes easy. In the end, though, I find these boats frustrating, and I think others do too, hence swinging poles to try and get round the original lack of suitability.
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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zippyRN ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 437 |
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<yawn>
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iGRF ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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You have a problem with faith zippy? |
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zippyRN ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 437 |
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you appear to be unaware that GRF exists in a faith based bubble where facts and science do not trouble the application of dogma
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iGRF ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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Well it is fact, with that Alto, I took a guy in his late forties maybe early fifties with absolutely no sailing experience whatsoever, and gave him a taste of the front of the fleet almost from the get go. You couldn't do that with poles and sym kites. A self ticking jib, single string assym kite and pole, with the swinging bit lead back to the helm, I could have used your grandmother..
Edited by iGRF - 27 Jul 18 at 7:13pm |
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Dougaldog ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 05 Nov 10 Location: hamble Online Status: Offline Posts: 356 |
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Some interesting thoughts here and for once a quite sensible dialogue.... that issue of accessibility is something that was/is worth exploring. Just as Dinghy Mag expired, we were working on a project that would see me sailing at the Merlin and RS 400 Championships with a 'new' crew - someone reasonably new to the sport but who was keen to get involved. Back then we liked multi-part articles so this was going to come in 4 linked pieces; Preparation, the two events and a wrap up with conclusions. The Merlin, with the twin pole set up is probably easier than maybe the Fireball, which was still tied to a single pole set up. Sadly, getting this sort of writing into print was hard then and is even harder now, yet it is just exactly where the media could play a role. But that inbreed, class specific tribalism that dominates current thinking works against any form of more informative writing. But accessibility IS an issue - I saw a great example being played out at the weekend, a sailor out in the wrong boat because that was what he had been told was the 'hot' class to be in.... D/Isle of Wight
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Dougal H
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iGRF ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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Abusing your own child into banditry is not a good example. ![]() |
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