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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Laser Arms Race
    Posted: 01 Jun 18 at 7:32pm
I'm going to put this in Dinghy Development because quite contrarily to what the 'class racing is best' brigade believe, the truth couldn't be further from their virtual reality of 'we're all sailing the same thing so it must be fair.

Last night once again I presented the finest dinghy ever built to the course area and the wind immediately departed, so we started comparing Laser rigs.

The differences in the various sails were quite remarkable and that's just the class legal varieties, then when you take into account the various 'training' and/or knock offs, the current flavour of the month being from MDM or something similarly named, and you have a complete mess which y'all have the gall to call 'One Design'.

Not to mention the one advantageous thing our lot haven't yet done which is to adopt the new carbon top section that word has it all the top guys are now having to reinforce their sail heads in order to be able to crank so much more downhaul on to have positive effect.

Meanwhile as it gets faster.. the Laser actually gets slower according to it's agenda driven friends in PYAG circles..

Discuss.. Oh and per-lease keep reminding me why class racing is best.

Edited by iGRF - 01 Jun 18 at 7:35pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 18 at 7:39pm
Even the Laser builders agree
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423zero View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 18 at 8:03pm
The Laser will get slower over time, when new designs of single handers come out Laser PY will have to be altered to allow it to compete, PYAG can't be expected to deal with none class legal sails, that's up to RO.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 18 at 8:28pm
I find sailing a 10 year old Laser with replica sail against a range of 4 to 15 year old Lasers with a range of gen-u-wine and replica sails, it's the good sailors who understand the wind who beat me.
Great racing on a budget of a couple of hundred quid a year.
The differences between the various sails are pro's and cons in various conditions, but are small beer in terms of hiking  hard and getting the shifts right.
All the sails are IMHO pretty nasty.
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 18 at 10:44pm
[QUOTE=Peaky]Even the
sailcraftblog.wordpress.com

The history and design of the racing dinghy.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote DiscoBall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 18 at 11:05pm
http://www.impropercourse.com/2018/05/julian-bethwaite-lasers-olympics-and.html


Though Chris there's obviously the new carbon top section and new sail design. Maybe a fair bit cheaper than a whole rig, but still essentially creating a potential step change in the class.

Though I know that every OD class that dabbles with a bit of (carbon fetish) development swears blind that the boats still go the same speed... Wink
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 18 at 12:16am
From what I'm seeing and hearing, personally and from guys like multiple Masters world champ and top coach Brett Bayer, the change to the big sail has not increased speed overall and there's very little performance difference in the rigs. At class meetings, people who are knowledgeable and trustworthy were saying the development of the carbon topmast was all about reliability and was also performance-neutral.

I sail three other SMODs, of different types. One is currently going through a major upgrade that I support for various reasons, so it's not a case of just being against change. In the Laser's case, however, there seems to be no way of making the change without affecting the grass-roots fleets that are the Laser's strongpoint. 

Changes to SMOD classes seem to be such complicated issues that anyone who claims the outcome of such a big rules change will be predictable must be wrong.

You're right, lots of classes say that changes make them MUCH faster, but also don't make the old boats uncompetitive. Apparently there's two sorts of speed increase, or something. Dead




Edited by Chris 249 - 02 Jun 18 at 12:59am
sailcraftblog.wordpress.com

The history and design of the racing dinghy.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 18 at 8:54am
I've yet to see a plastic laser top mast.
I've seen too many ali ones bend in ordinary use though.

The new sail is 'different'. It seems at my level, you have to sail a little differently with more kicker. More kicker than you want in light air. IMHO. Sometimes.
But the speed difference is no more than you'd expect because the old sail has done a fair few races. Just buy the same replica as your rivals, get a good start and understand the windshifts.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 18 at 1:25pm
Well I've noticed huge speed differences in our mackerel fleet as one or the other gets a new/different sail and you can visibly see the differences if you've an eye for these things which trust me after all these years of studying different sails, I have.
One question I didn't quite get the answer to, from one of the class legal guys, apparently there are two types of Laser genuine sails and one has some sort of 'red button' whilst the other doesn't, what's that all about?

And if I were ever serious about sailing that junk I'd have moved mountains to get that carbon top bit regardless of what anyone said about it, carbon is 'live' Alloy is 'dead' and that is a fact of life, unless they've done what they did to the EPS and bung a length of alloy up the middle of a carbon tube to make it look like the real thing but act like something else.

Edited by iGRF - 02 Jun 18 at 1:27pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 18 at 1:54pm


And this.. if ever an example of how so called 'experts' haven't a clue what they're doing in attempting on the one hand to emulate a windsurfer rig and mast bend whilst destroying what it does with rear sheeting and a vang.. I despair.
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