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Post Options Post Options   Quote H2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Pay and play
    Posted: 01 Jun 18 at 9:14am
Risk capital does not grow on trees?? Really Cirrus because there are no companies raising money for models that serve the gig economy for which the revenue model is uncertain.....do you want me to list them for you?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 18 at 8:56am
Would I put up my own money in a new venture? In certain circumstances, maybe with any luck future circumstances - yep I can see a possible situation.

Would I spend money from a club reserve account (assuming it had one) to seed fund proper class racing and encourage new and retain old Members? Yes. No question.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 18 at 8:47am
1) It is not whether you can find a latent market for 'Pay N Play' .. that might exist or it might not.  2) But can you find anybody prepared to invest in the setup ?  Risk capital does not grow on trees and this one really would look mighty risky.

Answer to 1) ... Likely to be (very) limited indeed
Answer to 2)  .... Frankly NO !  as in 'not any time soon or never'

You can speculate that the market is there or might change in the future all you like .. or put up your own money when you find others are reluctant to stump up the money ....

Thought about it ?  Take your time ....  OK maybe not then..... Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Quote H2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 18 at 7:31am
Fortunately the small number of people who post on here PeterG are not actually representative of the sailing public!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote PeterG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 18 at 5:21pm
Originally posted by Oli

Originally posted by chris_wht

Originally posted by H2

I am sure that people have seen it but if your interested look at the Queen Mary site to see what they are doing on P&P - select membership costs £250 to join and then £79 per month for unlimited use of a range of kit and discounted training. This is as close as it gets to joining a gym but works due to proximity to London as a major factor.


£1200 a year to sail on a concrete bowl next to slough  Pinch

thats serious dedication to the sport!

is it?

lets look at the numbers...

say you race/sail an aero 9 for 5 years on that rental scheme thats £6k

now go out and buy one thats £7.5k
insure it over that period is another £900
period membership £1545
5 years of boat parking £895
running costs £250
new sail £500
resale value £4500

total £7090 (conservative costings here and doesn't account for inflation)

i'll take the pay and play please.

My first reaction was it's ridiculously expensive, but then you do, as you say, have to factor in that it's on the outskirts of London, so prices are high, options to sail without a long drive are poor, and yoofs with disposable income are present in large numbers.

So, yes, on one level it's a viable deal. But, and it's a big but, where it fails is that they don't have Aeros. They have lots of Picos, a few Lasers, and generally the a fleet that looks like a large club training fleet. No idea what condition the boats are in, but I don't mind guessing that you could pick up an equivalent Laser for £1000. If you want pay and play with boats like newish Aeros and a large staff making sure they are in the condition you would like your boat to be in when you come to sail, and enough boats that you can sail on the best days when everyone else wants to, then you are going to pay more - MUCH more. And if you want to try your hand in something tricky and vulnerable like a Musto or a foiling Moth, then the prices will rack up again.

I'm not saying it wouldn't work for some, and compared to a London gym membership I'd rather be sailing on QM than sweating in a gym, but as a replacement for the sort of sailing that most people here want it's got a very long way to go.

Peter
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 18 at 5:01pm
I get the maths, the maths must add up, otherwise commercial centres wouldn't exist, just not sure where people are seeing Pay and Play fitting into existing structure we have today ? 
I mainly own old boats ('legacy boats' some call them), would need somewhere to sail these.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 18 at 4:52pm
Pay n play is not about cheaping it up, it’s about lifestyle affordability. Oli seems to get the maths...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 18 at 4:47pm
Let's recap, we are talking Pay and Play at existing clubs only ? Commercial centres are not counted in the overall 'possible future' of sailing ?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Oli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 18 at 2:41pm
Originally posted by Gordon 1430

Hi Oli
Agree with your figures but at the Dinghy show I attended an RYA clubs seminar and QMSC did a presentation and what has actually happened is people after a few years have bought there own boats and converted to normal club membership. So the club (if you can call QMSC a club) wins all round.
I tried to present the idea of this new membership type to my club as something we should be thinking about and got shot down in no uncertain terms, probably didn't do my best promotion job I must admit.

well the option to change to the owner model would always appealing for various reasons, ability to travel/move clubs would be one.

shame they shot it down though, i seriously think the clubs round here could do worse than band together a bit more and come to some consensus on which classes they could each provide on a "gym" basis to help retain the student/young adult demographic. 

They need to either over lap classes and make for larger "river" racing or to make sure they are unique classes for smaller "club" racing.  lasers and solos would be ubiquitous, but fireballs and sprint 15's although having large fleets individually at a couple of clubs are definitely club specific.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote H2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 18 at 1:56pm
Originally posted by chris_wht

Originally posted by H2

I am sure that people have seen it but if your interested look at the Queen Mary site to see what they are doing on P&P - select membership costs £250 to join and then £79 per month for unlimited use of a range of kit and discounted training. This is as close as it gets to joining a gym but works due to proximity to London as a major factor.


£1200 a year to sail on a concrete bowl next to slough  Pinch

thats serious dedication to the sport!

Have you seen what it costs to hit a little white ball around a field near to London?
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