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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Feva masts
    Posted: 30 Apr 18 at 9:45pm
Originally posted by iGRF

Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

Sadly that is the way it is going though. I can't think of a modern class that has the traditional model of a designer designs it, gets a builder to build a couple of prototypes then allows anybody to build them subject to a licence fee. The H2 is probably the nearest thing to that but can anybody buy the plans and build them or can they only be built by Hadron Dinghies Ltd (and I understand that it may not be viable for an independent dinghy builder to make moulds etc. in view of the low volume production)?


Ahem,, isn't that what these Farr37s do? They seem to let anyone build them.

One day I might even get to sail one in actual wind.

Yes, they do but it's hardly a new design is it.......
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L123456 View Drop Down
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Posts: 500 		Post Options Post Options   Quote L123456 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 18 at 6:01pm
How does one work a Farr into the discussion on Feva masts. Top ramping. 
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 18 at 3:27pm
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

Sadly that is the way it is going though. I can't think of a modern class that has the traditional model of a designer designs it, gets a builder to build a couple of prototypes then allows anybody to build them subject to a licence fee. The H2 is probably the nearest thing to that but can anybody buy the plans and build them or can they only be built by Hadron Dinghies Ltd (and I understand that it may not be viable for an independent dinghy builder to make moulds etc. in view of the low volume production)?


Ahem,, isn't that what these Farr37s do? They seem to let anyone build them.

One day I might even get to sail one in actual wind.
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Old Timer View Drop Down
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Posts: 370 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Old Timer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 18 at 3:04pm
Originally posted by Jack Sparrow

Originally posted by JimC

I'm no fan of the almost universal cheap purchase/expensive consumables pricing model, but it's unfair to call it a ripoff. You are simply subsidising an otherwise unsustainably cheap purchase price with your consumable parts purchases. It could also be characterized as a way of evening out the expense of a new boat. If the total cost of ownership over the average lifespan of the item is much the same there is no ripoff.

Is a Feva actually a cheap purchase price? Have you done the sums? Certainly, a Laser isn't a cheap purchase price and has an expensive parts/consumables list. The Feva looks no different to me. In fact, given the boat is injection molded, it looks like an expensive/expensive model to me. Even after the tooling cost of the mold jig.

Our handmade, low volume builder of Farr 3.7 sells a similar sized boat for only slightly more than these boats.

Really do they have a cheap purchase price? I don't think so. So yep, it's a rip-off.

Cheap / expensive perceptions will depend on the benefits the consumer is seeking ...
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Posts: 323 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Neal_g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 18 at 12:26pm
5337 for a feva with trolley top cover
2nd hand farr 3.7 4900
Not that much cheaper plus what sail etc
Costs can be cut everywhere doesn't mean it's better

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Posts: 2965 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 18 at 10:36am
Originally posted by JimC

I'm no fan of the almost universal cheap purchase/expensive consumables pricing model, but it's unfair to call it a ripoff. You are simply subsidising an otherwise unsustainably cheap purchase price with your consumable parts purchases. It could also be characterized as a way of evening out the expense of a new boat. If the total cost of ownership over the average lifespan of the item is much the same there is no ripoff.

Is a Feva actually a cheap purchase price? Have you done the sums? Certainly, a Laser isn't a cheap purchase price and has an expensive parts/consumables list. The Feva looks no different to me. In fact, given the boat is injection molded, it looks like an expensive/expensive model to me. Even after the tooling cost of the mold jig.

Our handmade, low volume builder of Farr 3.7 sells a similar sized boat for only slightly more than these boats.

Really do they have a cheap purchase price? I don't think so. So yep, it's a rip-off.
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Posts: 1 		Post Options Post Options   Quote GD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 18 at 7:58am
Because of the way the Feva shrouds are attached to the mast, the shroud eyes dig into the mast and most likely caused the wear and eventual breakage. Maybe new masts have extra padding to limit this but if not make sure you pad this area well. 
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Riv View Drop Down
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Posts: 353 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Riv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 18 at 8:12pm
This has been a very useful discussion:

1) Having brought Fevas about 10yrs ago my club has not put in place an effective maintenance and replacement program as would be done with any other piece of expensive hardware.

In our defence we assumed that roto moulded boats would be free of large part failure, and that we would only have to replace the occasional sail/ropes/hiking straps etc

We also assumed that there would always be a pool of skilled and dedicated volunteers who would make repairs in their own time so absorbing the costs. Soon this will no longer be so.

2) When we purchase new 15-16ft trainers we will build in an appropriate appreciation of the lifetime costs over 10yrs and fund them.

3) This will mean club members paying more.

I'm pleased that RS might be able to do something for us. On contacting them I expected to order 3 top masts and expected to pay about £220 which is the price for a Topper Lower mast section which has a similar level of size and complexity. Though not planed for we could have absorbed the cost by cutting other spending.

As regards boat choice, we sail from a rocky,  muddy, tidal foreshore so I'm looking for boats that will bounce well. 
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Oli View Drop Down
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Posts: 1020 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Oli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 18 at 1:15pm
guess what you need to know is how much do individual members pay for their sailing year on year over the span of participating within a fleet? would that investment be better centralised and used as "buying power" for the club as a whole thereby reducing the individual burden and perhaps creating fleet loyalty?

Depending upon the above perhaps most clubs could afford it?
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 18 at 12:34pm
Wouldn't it be nice to be able to lease club boats, and every winter they go back to the owner for a full overhaul and all wearing parts, ropes etc replaced if necessary. Trouble is it would be expensive compared to relying on club volunteer labour to keep the boats vaguely seaworthy. If it was done as a serious business though, maybe they could have loan craft, so that over the course of a year each boat is withdrawn, maybe in pairs (1 trailer load) and replaced with a loan boat. A week or two weeks later they are swapped back. That way the lease company could have their maintenance staff steadily employed all year round. But the money would be a killer for all but the most affluent clubs.
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