New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: When is a class dead?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

When is a class dead?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 56789>
Author
423zero View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 08 Jan 15
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3420
Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: When is a class dead?
    Posted: 25 Sep 17 at 5:54pm
Cirrus, I was being ironic, my boat list is Enterprise, Minisprint, Mirror and Tinker Traveller, hardly main stream, I am also CVRDA.
Back to Top
Rupert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 04
Location: Whitefriars sc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8956
Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 17 at 8:04pm
I spent the weekend running evil RYA courses. I put 6 people through level 2 or 3. I'm pleased to say that whilst being forced to confirm to RYA ideals, no one declared they were giving up sailing for good as they cried whilst I beat them with a tiller extension.

In fact, they seem to have had a great time messing about in boats while more experienced sailors passed on ways of improving their sailing and therefore enabling them to get more from their hobby. We did the L2 in Comet Trios, which would probably qualify for this strange banned list, the L3 in a Trio, a 2000 and Q'bas.
Boats owned by some of the sailors included a Blokart, Tideway and West Wight Scow, which I can safely say don't represent mainstream RYA thinking. But what they learned on the course will help them anyway.

I suspect the only time the RYA was mentioned was in the context of the RYA wind blowing down the whiteboard, but without the training schemes they have, none of the above would have happened. I don't believe that simply messing about in boats would bring as many people into the sport and keep them there.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
Back to Top
Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 07 Mar 12
Location: Manchester UK
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3401
Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 17 at 11:43pm
I was not suggesting RYA courses are evil just that they are only one way to learn to sail. They will suit some people and discourage others. If an RYA level one course had been my only option 50 years ago I doubt I would be sailing now..........
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
Back to Top
Rupert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 04
Location: Whitefriars sc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8956
Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 17 at 7:49am
Why would it be an only option, even now? And why would it have put you off? I can see it could if badly run, but that would be the same for any introduction to any activity. All L1 does is give you an idea of what sailing is like and teach you easy ways to do things like tack, which can cause issues if figured out without help. Some sailing background, and a chance to sail without an instructor rounds things off.
All easily possible with say, a friend who sails, too. Harder to figure out from books, but can still be done. Courses can also make you new friends, and if done when there are other sailors around, show what is possible as you progress.

What follows an introduction to sailing, whatever form it takes, is far more important for long term retention of sailors.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
Back to Top
Eisvogel View Drop Down
Posting king
Posting king
Avatar

Joined: 09 Dec 16
Location: Birmingham
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 135
Post Options Post Options   Quote Eisvogel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 17 at 9:10am
Originally posted by Rupert

What follows an introduction to sailing, whatever form it takes, is far more important for long term retention of sailors.

Indeed! Once they have done the course, but don't yet want to (or can) commit to buying their own boat, what do you do to make them stay around? That is the £1.000.000 question for the survival of many clubs, I would think.

Also, the RYA courses are great at getting you to a fairly competent level of sailing fast, in two weekends. Then you can mess about in boats at a much higher level, and learn at your own pace. And many people just don't have the time to spend months in the front of a GP14 to pick up through careful observation how all this sailing thing works.

Especially if you're new to the sport. I learned sailing with my dad over a long time as a kid, but if I were to try it out today, that would not be an option for me.
Enterprise 20361 (Eisvogel), Laser 102727 (Halcyon), Laser 121986
Back to Top
turnturtle View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 05 Dec 14
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2538
Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 17 at 9:46am
Originally posted by Do Different

I think it comes back to a question I've asked before. Is what sailing clubs offer a sport or a pastime? Before you offer solutions you need to clarify the illness you are trying to cure.

I fully agree with your line of thoughts here - I'd say there's hybrid between the two concepts of 'sport' and 'pastime'- especially considering the propensity to race different boats using a handicap system... a bit like a Zumba or Spin class; or maybe a Sunday group cycle ride.  Sporadic competitiveness dispersed across an active pastime... maybe where the sporting challenge is just as much against oneself as is it is against fellow competitors.  

IMHO - sailing only really becomes a full blown 'sport' when the level of physical and mental agility gets prioritised over the equipment, conditions and luck of the draw- in effect, fleet racing, but as Jim points out, that doesn't appear to be what the majority of UK dinghy sailors want and the one thing no one need is further decimation in participation.  
Back to Top
Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 07 Mar 12
Location: Manchester UK
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3401
Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 17 at 10:44am
When I was 12 I was learning to play Flute and teaching myself guitar (and incidentally learning to sail). My flute teacher was a decent enough teacher and had a good level of success with many of his pupils but the formality of the training put me off, I don't play flute any more but I do play guitar to a good standard...... Just my nature I guess.

I did a Windsurfing Instructor course a fair few years ago (because I had been offered a job which ultimately did not come about). Great instructors, thoroughly enjoyed the week as a consequence but IMO a lot of nonsense about correct grip and other such. The formality of it would have put me off windsurfing and I'm very thankful that I taught myself when I first started or I probably would not have had the 30 years windsurfing I have enjoyed. The RYA system clearly works for many but to suggest it is the 'proper' way to learn to sail...... As I said, not evil (Rupert's word not mine) but equally not the best way for everybody.
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
Back to Top
iiiiticki View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 06 Mar 16
Location: Derbyshire
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 206
Post Options Post Options   Quote iiiiticki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 17 at 11:24am
As far as I can see over many years of observation those sailors, particularly young sailors, who take starter courses then dump them in favour of racing are the ones to watch.

We have this 14 year old girl.....

On the other hand we have professional trainees who train year after year and never sail otherwise.

Ben Ainslies or Swallows and Amazon's?
Back to Top
iGRF View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 11
Location: Hythe
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6499
Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 17 at 11:32am
A class AFAIK is a group of people with unreasonable expectations, and the sooner they're dead the better.

Edited by iGRF - 26 Sep 17 at 11:32am
Back to Top
Cirrus View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 29 Oct 15
Location: UK
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 590
Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 17 at 12:08pm
Sailing is generally a social activity for the vast majority whether they race or not.  When clubs grind on about 'decling membership' they often focus on the racing side ... and seem oblivious to the fact that they have often allowed the social aspects of their club to gently falter/decline/fade away over the years.   Even if you don't race regularly, and the majority DO NOT if ever, when the social programme declines so does your interest in the club.   Non sailing family members have little to attract them to a club and their family 'occasionals' find more social things to do with their time. Most of the 'good ideas' coming out of typical SC committees to halt any decline seem to be racing related ...  come along guys work it out. 

No Christmas party, or summer one for that matter, no more 'end of season' dinners, or 'start of year' ones, no Bonfire night gathering (cos 'Health and Safety' frightens the worthies running many clubs), fewer and fewer curry and live music nights, closed bars too often as well   ... etc etc ... What on earth is there to attract and keep the 'occasionals' and their families there ! .... and then they even get chased to do yet more duties as numbers dwindle.  Now there are still some brilliant clubs out there of all sizes .. but they all seem to be disproportionately driven by the social aspects.  Get that right and the racing sorts itself out naturally.

Ignore the social aspects and you may as well pack up shop completely as you slide down the inevitable slippery slope.     
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 56789>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy