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When is a class dead?
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Cirrus View Drop Down
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Posts: 590 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: When is a class dead?
    Posted: 25 Sep 17 at 4:23pm

The vast majority of those who sail .... DO NOT RACE.  Prescriptions suggested that restrict what people 'aught' to race, how they should race, and in 'what' they should race will not make any +ve difference whatsoever.  Possibly the exact opposite in fact.   Changing the sport to 'chase the money' coming from TV will not help either imo - waste of time except perhaps for those directly supping at the trough.  Tinkering with formats etc in the vain hope that 'something will change surely’ is also doomed even if it is that 'itch' some find just impossible to resist.

Lots out there sail occasionally ... any way of gently encouraging them to try racing might be a better –  not via certificates, courses and formal  training, better by far with informality and open sociability – via social events etc etc.    The last thing that ever helps is when some peer down their noses at those who have the temerity just to muck around in boats at ‘racing clubs’... of whatever pedigree.

Be sure that nothing is likely to produce a new golden age (aka 60's or 70's) in this sport.  But the last thing that attracts anyone new is 'top down edicts' from keyboard politicos  or distant ‘organisers’ telling them what they 'should' like, how they should enjoy it, what they should sail or aim to emulate... if they keep hearing  such ‘encouragement’  ... well they are more likely simply do something a bit more enjoyable – ie easy going and above all FUN. 

 




Edited by Cirrus - 25 Sep 17 at 4:24pm
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H2 View Drop Down
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Posts: 750 		Post Options Post Options   Quote H2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 17 at 4:27pm
Sure so let them Govern, set the rules, run the championships and determine who goes to the Olympics etc. None of that will affect who shows up next weekend at your club. That will be determined by whether it is easy to learn, there are appealing boats to buy that reflect the modern human body and the people in the club are friendly and kind. If your club is not doing so well, perhaps you should ask some tough questions of whether you are all a bunch of nerds that no one likes to hang around with rather than asking what the RYA is going to do!
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H2 View Drop Down
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Posts: 750 		Post Options Post Options   Quote H2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 17 at 4:29pm
So - lets start a discussion on which type of sailors we want to kill off rather than which boats are dead....
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 17 at 4:30pm
Originally posted by Cirrus

The vast majority of those who sail .... DO NOT RACE.  Prescriptions suggested that restrict what people 'aught' to race, how they should race, and in 'what' they should race will not make any +ve difference whatsoever.  Possibly the exact opposite in fact.   Changing the sport to 'chase the money' coming from TV will not help either imo - waste of time except perhaps for those directly supping at the trough.  Tinkering with formats etc in the vain hope that 'something will change surely’ is also doomed even if it is that 'itch' some find just impossible to resist.

Lots out there sail occasionally ... any way of gently encouraging them to try racing might be a better –  not via certificates, courses and formal  training, better by far with informality and open sociability – via social events etc etc.    The last thing that ever helps is when some peer down their noses at those who have the temerity just to muck around in boats at ‘racing clubs’... of whatever pedigree.

Be sure that nothing is likely to produce a new golden age (aka 60's or 70's) in this sport.  But the last thing that attracts anyone new is 'top down edicts' from keyboard politicos  or distant ‘organisers’ telling them what they 'should' like, how they should enjoy it, what they should sail or aim to emulate... if they keep hearing  such ‘encouragement’  ... well they are more likely simply do something a bit more enjoyable – ie easy going and above all FUN. 

 



spot on.... a run of clement weather also helps too I guess.
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Old Timer View Drop Down
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Posts: 370 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Old Timer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 17 at 4:33pm
Originally posted by H2

Sure so let them Govern, set the rules, run the championships and determine who goes to the Olympics etc. None of that will affect who shows up next weekend at your club. That will be determined by whether it is easy to learn, there are appealing boats to buy that reflect the modern human body and the people in the club are friendly and kind. If your club is not doing so well, perhaps you should ask some tough questions of whether you are all a bunch of nerds that no one likes to hang around with rather than asking what the RYA is going to do!

So we don't think the RYA has a role in developing participation at grass roots level?
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 17 at 4:36pm
Originally posted by Old Timer

Originally posted by H2

Sure so let them Govern, set the rules, run the championships and determine who goes to the Olympics etc. None of that will affect who shows up next weekend at your club. That will be determined by whether it is easy to learn, there are appealing boats to buy that reflect the modern human body and the people in the club are friendly and kind. If your club is not doing so well, perhaps you should ask some tough questions of whether you are all a bunch of nerds that no one likes to hang around with rather than asking what the RYA is going to do!

So we don't think the RYA has a role in developing participation at grass roots level?

of course they do... which is why there's a network of instructors and regional bods to tap into to get your occasional potterer into a racing snake.... just don't tell them what to do it in, they will find out for themselves ultimately and make their own minds up.
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 17 at 4:42pm
They should have but they are not very good at it. The common perception of RYA is that of youth squads, Olympic hopefuls and proscribed 'training' courses when most people would be far better just learning by 'messing about in boats' as nearly all sailors of my generation did. For me as a kid, sailing gave me a level of freedom that was a good step up from what most of my non sailing friends had, even in those more liberal days.

Regarding dead classes, it's probably much easier to define classes that are definitely alive....... As a sailor of a 'dead class' which gives me a huge amount of enjoyment I would resent and resist any attempt to restrict my opportunities to sail her.


Edited by Sam.Spoons - 25 Sep 17 at 4:44pm
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 17 at 4:47pm
It's easy to sl*g the RYA off... and you can't beat a good giggle at anyone still wearing a Blazer with Chinos, but let's be honest.... most clubs (the adults in them anyway) probably want as little intervention as humanly possible.  

The resources are there to tap in to if clubs want them... 
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Posts: 1312 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 17 at 4:53pm
Not really seeing much logic in your plan Old Timer, as others have pointed out, if a class has insignificant activity then it is hardly impacting on the majority or offering many candidates to convert to bigger classes.

To my mind there are people who like sailing and people who like racing and a middle ground that blends the two.  

A diktat may possibly suit the pure racers but perhaps not sit so comfortably with the rest of Club members. 

I think it comes back to a question I've asked before. Is what sailing clubs offer a sport or a pastime? Before you offer solutions you need to clarify the illness you are trying to cure.
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Posts: 1312 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 17 at 5:11pm
Sorry Cirrus @ 4.24. I missed your post.
Yes you're spot on  Beer Handshake
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