Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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List classes of boat for sale |
Step 2, RS 300? |
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Steve411 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 09 Sep 08 Location: Cheddar, Somerset, England Online Status: Offline Posts: 705 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 19 Jul 17 at 2:59pm |
That's a fair point. I had to unlearn 20 years of downwind technique when I first got a 300. Had forgotten that.
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piglet ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 04 Jan 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 514 |
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I haven't travelled with mine so I don't know what 'proper' 300 sailors would say, but I do think you need to be nimble and light on your feet in the 300, getting your body weight into the right place quickly seems to matter.
Papa Smurf, you didn't mention the Blaze in your list of possibles. Not my cup of tea but some people like them, fast on a reach and a more stable platform for sure.
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Its really a question of technique. If you've got what Bethwaite calls fast handling technique dialled properly then with 4 years experience a 300 will not be a great problem. If you haven't, then as well as getting used to a faster responding boat you've also got to unlearn your current reactions and learn new ones, and that's really rather challenging.
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turnturtle ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 05 Dec 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2538 |
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and honestly speaking, the learning isn't even that steep compared to the 600, MPS, 700, Moth etc.... I don't think I capsized in the first few light wind sessions I sailed mine, but there's a definite step change once the breeze fills in firm.
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Steve411 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 09 Sep 08 Location: Cheddar, Somerset, England Online Status: Offline Posts: 705 |
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Edit forgot the 300, I took one out once was lucky to get back alive, terrible boat nasty nasty nasty.
I suspect this might say more about iGRF than the 300. As with anything in life you get out what you're prepared to put in. We've already said there's a learning curve involved, but once you've got over that you get a very rewarding boat to sail.
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piglet ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 04 Jan 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 514 |
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I'm sure the 300 speaks highly of you.
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iGRF ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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You sound like me, I've always wanted a Phantom but am to small I'm even thinking of getting one anyway and fitting a trapeze, but that's another fantasy, right now I'm firmly in the Solution = nicest boat of them all camp. I also loved the D Zero enough to place a deposit and I am tempted by the Aero 7, but the Solution beats them both hands down with it's raising centreboard, and raking rig on the fly so no it hasn't been superceded just terribly marketed. I'm not going to go into all the negatives of the others or of the Solution for that matter (it's far from perfect)but I would say it is the most Phantom like of all the single handers out there and was designed that way by former Phantom sailors. Edit forgot the 300, I took one out once was lucky to get back alive, terrible boat nasty nasty nasty. Edited by iGRF - 19 Jul 17 at 11:37am |
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turnturtle ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 05 Dec 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2538 |
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To put this in context, the sailing style is similar with the rig and the nice bow shape- it's responsive and clean; both great to windward, both stunning on a reach or dead downwind by the lee. Once you get over the rolling motion, I don't actually think the RS300 is that hard to sail up to around 14 knots of breeze - I'm not saying I'd be competitive in one, especially with your current handicap (you lot have got too good!), but to just go sailing, it's not the demon it's been made out to be. I know a few people who have owned/sailed both and all find similarities between both that are all-round positive. The general vibe is the D-Zero is a little easier though... and would probably suit someone with less time more. I described the D-Zero as a RS300 on its meds.... I love both boats, and quite frankly am seriously considering both with a view to buying one in the autumn.
Edited by turnturtle - 19 Jul 17 at 11:06am |
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Steve411 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 09 Sep 08 Location: Cheddar, Somerset, England Online Status: Offline Posts: 705 |
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I have both a 300 and a D-Zero. Without doubt the 300 is a more difficult boat to sail, but a huge amount of fun. As Piglet says, there's a definite speed ceiling as in strong winds you have to back off downwind otherwise you won't survive. There's also a learning curve you have to get through, which is likely to last several months. Having said that, the 300 makes you a better sailor as the boat tells you if you're doing something wrong! It tells you quickly too. However, there's a reason I kept my 300 when I bought a D-Zero earlier this year - it is too rewarding to get rid of.
The D-Zero is also a great boat. It is much easier to sail downwind than the 300 as it has a nice flat planing section at the rear of the boat, like a skiff. This allows you to take more liberties with it than the 300 and not get wet. Interestingly, I find the D-Zero much more difficult to sail upwind. This may have something to do with the narrow beam and may have something to do with my (lack of) technique. The 300 has loads of power and loads of beam so upwind you pull everything in and the boat just powers away. I find much more body and tiller movement is required in the D-Zero. As for the Phantom, I borrowed one for a very windy champs at Shoreham a few years ago (force 5 to 6), my first time in the boat. I weigh 81kg. I found it more of a struggle upwind until I figured out the settings needed. By the end of the weekend I was getting top 10 results. I think90kg might be better in a Phantom - I know most of the fleet is heavier but not all of them sit out all that hard. You have the same righting moment at 80 kilos sitting out hard than a heavier person does perching on the sidedeck. Like the D-Zero the Phantom is pretty stable downwind (but you do need to be aware of the low boom).
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piglet ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 04 Jan 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 514 |
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I bought an old 300 at the end of last season and have been chipping away at it when crew that must be obeyed fancies the afternoon off from the 200.
I am enjoying the 300 but this is what I think, for what it's worth: Skill level, I did the Contender circuit for a few years, sailed Lasers a fair bit & assys. Weight, 71Kg, bit light for 300 with B rig but doesn't seem to be a problem. Fitness, I do some cct training fitness stuff & Yoga, at 51 it's use it or lose it. I didn't find the boat too hard to step into but it's nothing like a Laser, very wobbly, a right bitch until the foils are down and getting the board in is an art in itself. Upwind it wants to be flat or towards you and that means hiking hard. Downwind I'm still working it out but there's a lot going on. Capsize recovery is an art, at first I really struggled to get back in but I've sussed it now, Fitness! Wind strengths, the 300 seems to excel in the mid strength, it's horrible when it's light and at 20Kts I'm still trying to work it out, gybing has to be spot on, not there yet. I have come to the conclusion that the hull is locked into a speed range and whereas something like a Blaze just planes higher and faster the 300 can't, downwind at 20Kts I can't hike out the back hard enough to lift the bow. What I really like about the 300 is that you can really throw it around, it's light and responsive in a way that the Contender and the Laser are not. I think you need to try one, it might be too big a jump, but maybe not. Hope that helps.
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