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Dinghy hull weights
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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    Posted: 14 Sep 16 at 12:36pm
It's the same size as the D-Zero and shorter but wider than a Laser. It weighs half what a laser does and 2/3rds of a D-Zero ergo less material in the hull. Logically that means thinner lay-ups. Coming from 30 years of windsurfing and even having built a couple of boards I know from experience that lighter construction always means a less robust hull. That can be mitigated to an extent by better materials (epoxy instead of polyester, kevlar in place of glass etc) but a lighter hull is definitely going to reward careful handling.
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 16 at 11:59am
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

...reminded me that a 30kg boat is likely to be less ding resistant than a 50kg hull

That's over simplistic. An awful lot of the Aero's light weight comes from it being a rather small boat, so there simply isn't that much material.
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 16 at 11:45am
I guess it's a balancing act (pun intended). Lighter is definitely better on the trolly though  Smile
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Posts: 669 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ifoxwell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 16 at 11:02am
Yup everyone thinks that the lighter the boat the better, and although there are a lot of obvious benefits its not all good. The livelier the boat the harder it is just to keep it sitting on its trolly on a windy day or to keep it upright when recovering from a capsize for example .
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 16 at 10:48am
I get the BM's higher aspect rig and 'V' hull shape would be better on a pond but the British Moth has 34 PY points over the Europe. Down, presumably, to lots of open sea returns and Olympic hopefuls sailing the Europe in recent years?

Re RS Aero, someone in the trade (with no axe to grind) has reminded me that a 30kg boat is likely to be less ding resistant than a 50kg hull (e.g. Aero versus Solution), he has recently repaired a penetrating ding where the Aero owner dropped the daggerboard on the deck. Also, reading between the lines, a couple of reviews have implied the Aero is quite 'lively' in a not necessarily good way.
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 16 at 9:51am
It's a long time since I sailed a Europe. Over 30 years in fact.
But I recall there were many around that were never down to weight when new.
Like 420's and so forth of that era, they had very short competitive lives if down to weight.
And like Finns, they have lots of choices of masts, so you can't just buy a better used sail knowing it will fit your mast reasonably well.
All I reacall about sailing it was the low aspect rig is no match for a British Moth on a pond surrounded by bushes.....
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 16 at 9:21am
Adding up all the component minimum weights (as detailed in the class rules) a Europe dinghy must weigh at least 58kg including fittings, foils, mast, and boom but without sail and ropes so a sailing weight of around 65kg seems likely.
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 16 at 12:14am
Originally posted by andy h

15kg is 33% of minimum weight; I'd be amazed if it had put on that much!  I had my 1991 boat re-weighed in 2010 and it had put on all of 0.5kg allowing me to remove the 0.3kg of correctors it had fitted at build.  Not bad for a 19 year old polyester hull.

Just thinking, my Spice looks as if it may be 15-20kg over weight and earlier posts suggest than much of that could possibly be as a result of the lay up taking up water. I think 20kg sounds improbable but I'll maybe give White Formula a call to ask what the reserve buoyancy was when they built the Spices back in the late '90s. It's possible that 'closed cell foam' may have absorbed a fair bit of H2O over the years. If not it just looks as if the quoted weight was wildly optimistic or maybe did not include any fittings and such like. When I weighed it (to save you trawling back to the beginning of the thread) I arrived at a sailing weight of 152kg (ish, say +/-5kg) which is 23kg more than an RS400 which has a claimed hull weight of 85kg, the same as the Spice, and a claimed sailing weight of 129kg.

I will read the Europe class measurement rules and weigh the one I'm considering as measured. I'll also find out the sail number and get some more info.
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 16 at 12:02am
The more I look at the Europe the more I like what I see and and the more I read about it the more it sounds like the right boat. Only a sail in one will tell me though so just waiting to get in touch with the guy selling one near my caravan. I'll have a sail and if I like it I might for now and look for a more recent, carbon rig boat for next year. I can't think of a better way to spend my declining years than playing guitars and sailing boats  Smile Then I have a mate who might take a half share in a Blaze.....
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Posts: 1094 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Bootscooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 16 at 10:51pm
Whilst it's not a large class by any means, there is a bit of a buzz around the Europes at the mo.  There's been some changes in the CA and there is now a group of highly enthused sailors of all ages getting involved to arrange and support opens and training events.  There's even talk of a team going to a European event next year....

If you want to find a boat to try near you, I'm sure it could be arranged.
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