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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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    Posted: 13 Sep 16 at 7:33pm
Originally posted by andy h

The Europe might be worth a punt at that price.  Low boom is counteracted by technique as per Finn and OK.  I wouldn't shorten the leech or rake the mast forward to increase clearance or you'll wreck the efficiency of the rig ... it's designed to sheet the boom down to the deck once you're hiking upwind.  The design is old ... but good.  Sadly not much class racing left here though.

No class racing of any kind at the clubs I'm involved in, and only Laser or Solo at the other local ponds so that's not an issue. I would keep it standard and learn to sail it or move it on if I can't. A trial sail should tell me if it's a complete non-starter and that should be forthcoming in the next few weeks.

It'll be interesting to weigh it, I'm guessing at +15kg over the minimum 45kg so around Laser weight with the rig (say 75kg)?


Edited by Sam.Spoons - 13 Sep 16 at 7:35pm
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andy h View Drop Down
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Posts: 69 		Post Options Post Options   Quote andy h Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 16 at 8:59pm
15kg is 33% of minimum weight; I'd be amazed if it had put on that much!  I had my 1991 boat re-weighed in 2010 and it had put on all of 0.5kg allowing me to remove the 0.3kg of correctors it had fitted at build.  Not bad for a 19 year old polyester hull.

Good luck with the trial sail.  As many have already said if you get the opportunity try the Aero, Blaze and anything else you can get your hands on too!
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Posts: 3401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 16 at 9:19pm
The Europe in question is a very old boat (sail number obscured on the hull plate) with a tin rig and which has been standing in the weather for some considerable time so the buoyancy tanks have probably been full of water for a good while. Either way it should be cheap and if it's under 60kg sailing weight I'll be highly impressed.

Gonna try anything on the list I can blag a sail in over the next few weeks. There are Aeros, D-Zeros, Lightning Streaker and Comet at my 'home' club and a dormant Blaze at another local club if I can track down the owner (may be a deal to be done there). I'll keep you posted  Cool
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Sounds like fun!
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Posts: 1094 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Bootscooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 16 at 10:51pm
Whilst it's not a large class by any means, there is a bit of a buzz around the Europes at the mo.  There's been some changes in the CA and there is now a group of highly enthused sailors of all ages getting involved to arrange and support opens and training events.  There's even talk of a team going to a European event next year....

If you want to find a boat to try near you, I'm sure it could be arranged.
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Posts: 3401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 16 at 12:02am
The more I look at the Europe the more I like what I see and and the more I read about it the more it sounds like the right boat. Only a sail in one will tell me though so just waiting to get in touch with the guy selling one near my caravan. I'll have a sail and if I like it I might for now and look for a more recent, carbon rig boat for next year. I can't think of a better way to spend my declining years than playing guitars and sailing boats  Smile Then I have a mate who might take a half share in a Blaze.....
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 16 at 12:14am
Originally posted by andy h

15kg is 33% of minimum weight; I'd be amazed if it had put on that much!  I had my 1991 boat re-weighed in 2010 and it had put on all of 0.5kg allowing me to remove the 0.3kg of correctors it had fitted at build.  Not bad for a 19 year old polyester hull.

Just thinking, my Spice looks as if it may be 15-20kg over weight and earlier posts suggest than much of that could possibly be as a result of the lay up taking up water. I think 20kg sounds improbable but I'll maybe give White Formula a call to ask what the reserve buoyancy was when they built the Spices back in the late '90s. It's possible that 'closed cell foam' may have absorbed a fair bit of H2O over the years. If not it just looks as if the quoted weight was wildly optimistic or maybe did not include any fittings and such like. When I weighed it (to save you trawling back to the beginning of the thread) I arrived at a sailing weight of 152kg (ish, say +/-5kg) which is 23kg more than an RS400 which has a claimed hull weight of 85kg, the same as the Spice, and a claimed sailing weight of 129kg.

I will read the Europe class measurement rules and weigh the one I'm considering as measured. I'll also find out the sail number and get some more info.
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 16 at 9:21am
Adding up all the component minimum weights (as detailed in the class rules) a Europe dinghy must weigh at least 58kg including fittings, foils, mast, and boom but without sail and ropes so a sailing weight of around 65kg seems likely.
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 16 at 9:51am
It's a long time since I sailed a Europe. Over 30 years in fact.
But I recall there were many around that were never down to weight when new.
Like 420's and so forth of that era, they had very short competitive lives if down to weight.
And like Finns, they have lots of choices of masts, so you can't just buy a better used sail knowing it will fit your mast reasonably well.
All I reacall about sailing it was the low aspect rig is no match for a British Moth on a pond surrounded by bushes.....
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Posts: 3401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 16 at 10:48am
I get the BM's higher aspect rig and 'V' hull shape would be better on a pond but the British Moth has 34 PY points over the Europe. Down, presumably, to lots of open sea returns and Olympic hopefuls sailing the Europe in recent years?

Re RS Aero, someone in the trade (with no axe to grind) has reminded me that a 30kg boat is likely to be less ding resistant than a 50kg hull (e.g. Aero versus Solution), he has recently repaired a penetrating ding where the Aero owner dropped the daggerboard on the deck. Also, reading between the lines, a couple of reviews have implied the Aero is quite 'lively' in a not necessarily good way.
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