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    Posted: 11 Mar 16 at 10:51am
Originally posted by iiiiticki

I see a group of tweed clad gentlemen (panama hats in summer) travelling the country in lovat green Range Rovers and smoking briar pipes whilst rigging.

Now you mention it, tweed is beginning to look attractive......
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 16 at 10:50am
Originally posted by iGRF

Originally posted by NeilB-Phantom

Interesting boat, especially to a very tall and aging phantom sailor finding getting under the boom harder, presumably with decent freeboard and shape it should be a decent seaboat.  Any hint as to what it's initial PY or EN will be?



When I first investigated it, it was 1071 presumably set by the wooden boat, personally if I were the designer I'd keep my PY counsell inside my yellow blazer pocket, and be like the X1/X0, stay under the parapet and hope they don't notice you, and certainly under no circumstances approach the b**tards for an EN. The more I think about it the more it would be best to have the manufacturer set a guideline and work to that and there needs to be a manfacturer approved register.

how f**king naive....  sorry to swear.  A manufacturer may attempt to approach 'them' for an EN, but until a club does, and starts issuing some returns, 'they' won't give said manufacturer squat.

Your lack of knowledge on the process of new classes gaining or not gaining an EN is astounding.... especially given your vociferous accusations of foul play around it.  


Edited by turnturtle - 11 Mar 16 at 10:50am
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Posts: 206 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iiiiticki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 16 at 10:48am
I see a group of tweed clad gentlemen (panama hats in summer) travelling the country in lovat green Range Rovers and smoking briar pipes whilst rigging.
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 16 at 10:45am
Originally posted by NeilB-Phantom

Interesting boat, especially to a very tall and aging phantom sailor finding getting under the boom harder, presumably with decent freeboard and shape it should be a decent seaboat.  Any hint as to what it's initial PY or EN will be?



When I first investigated it, it was 1071 presumably set by the wooden boat, personally if I were the designer I'd keep my PY counsell inside my yellow blazer pocket, and be like the X1/X0, stay under the parapet and hope they don't notice you, and certainly under no circumstances approach the b**tards for an EN. The more I think about it the more it would be best to have the manufacturer set a guideline and work to that and there needs to be a manfacturer approved register. I shall run it through the Peaky number generator and see what that spits out but I'm going to guess somewhere around 1040. which will see the PYAG group set it at 959 if they follow their normal form.

Edited by iGRF - 11 Mar 16 at 10:50am
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Posts: 32 		Post Options Post Options   Quote PaulPoshW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 16 at 9:48am
I agree it's difficult to compare costs to an established class like the Phantom, and until we know the class rules for the H2 running costs are very difficult to guess.

The Phantom having multi-brand sailmakers and mast suppliers is a great way of pushing the running costs up. You only have to look at the price of a competitive 'skinny' mast or 'fast' sail to work that out. It'll be interesting to see if the H2 follows this route or the one-design one.

For me I'd probably still choose a Phantom, but only because there are a few at the club to race against. But for the time being I don't see either tempting me to part company with the 300
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 16 at 9:30am
Originally posted by Keith_Callaghan

H2 only for the wealthy?

Ovington Phantom including HD Sails sail: £9207
See https://www.ovingtonboats.com/index.php/shop/phantom/boats/phantom-complete.html
and http://www.hdsails.com/blog/newsails/phantom/

H2 with HD Sails sail: £8995.
See http://hadrondinghy.com/ordering/

the upfront spend is only one aspect to the true cost of boat ownership.  So it's little disingenuous to cite a competitor price with a link to their website.

The true cost is a calculation on running costs and depreciation.  I'd say running costs could be equitable for both- good, well built boat with an exceptionally high-quality sail that I'd have every faith in providing seasons of competitive life.  Secondly, I bet the insurance premiums aren't dissimilar, but I haven't checked.

However the Ovington Phantom comes with a number of quite sizeable attributes to mitigate the risk on the depreciation aspect.

- an active class association with a programme of traveller events and independent championships
- local fleet racing, or at least other boats in handicap fleets to get proper racing against
- access to training
- a recently 'stabilised' PY (anyone moaning about the Phantom PY anymore???)
-  a tuning knowledge-base to get you up to speed as quickly as possible
- an active community, both online and off, to assist you get more from your sailing, even if you don't plan to attend class events
- known mast and sail combinations that are proven to extend the wind range / competitive weight range of the hull
- other active builders: in the event Ovington no longer wish to support the class, then others are already in place to take it forward without loss in faith from the marketplace
- an active range of sailmakers, offering price points and performance vs longevity options depending on your budget

I am not saying these things are not ultimately attainable for the H2- and believe me we can agree to hoping that happens (it's a lovely boat you've got there!); but to compare pricing directly with an established class, is, imho, a little disingenuous.... there's far more to the 'product' than the boat itself!


Edited by turnturtle - 11 Mar 16 at 10:41am
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Posts: 206 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iiiiticki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 16 at 8:43am
My comment was directed rather at the classiness of the truck rather than it's price.
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Posts: 80 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Keith_Callaghan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 16 at 8:38am
Rupert, I think you may be right!
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 16 at 8:31am
Just looking at it, I'm going to predict it is faster than 1040 once people get good at sailing them. Good in a drift sailed heeled, plenty of righting moment when windy, with good controls, easy to power up in the medium stuff.

Be interesting to see how it compares to the Aero9.
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Posts: 80 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Keith_Callaghan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 16 at 8:22am
NeilB, we are anticipating a PY of around 1040. Depth of hull, from sheerline to cockpit floor, is 56cm. Clearance under boom (with mast raked for medium winds) is 108cm.
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