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The State of Club Sailing

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Null View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The State of Club Sailing
    Posted: 07 Aug 15 at 1:05pm
Tick, without trying to run the thread off the rails.  Can i give you my feedback as an outsider of the Byte class.  I feel your pain in trying to understand what it is you need to be doing to promote class growth.  Whilst i am by no means an expert there are several things we in the Zero class are tying (with pockets of success) to achieve.

First of all, you are right.  The Byte doesn't seem to have a real identity here in the Uk.  I owned a Byte back in the early days and loved it.  Much better than a Topper and a Laser of its day.  It was however hampered from my perspective.  It used o sail off a PY similar to a Solo.  So as a sailor not interested in the, what was then emerging squad scene.  I often was deflated being thrashed by old boys in Solos.  Sure they sailed better than me, but the speed difference was striking.  We even loaned the boat to one of our Solo hotshots who laughed at the speed difference.  I sold the boat and moved into a Laser, massively overpowered, however it taught me so much more.  Nowadays i just don't know where the byte fits.  Its a lovely looking boat.  But i have no idea about the fleet demographic.  What weight range it offers or even what type of competition it offers.  If you look at other single handed classes, which i guess you would call 'successful' they all have some form of identity.  

Secondly other than your input on this forum, i hear nothing from the builder, the class or its sailors.  This is something that needs to be addressed.  It doesn't need to even cost any money.  The class needs to put itself into the spot light.  Why do no Bytes turn up to any of the winter handicaps?  Perhaps rally the troops now for a push.  Also Y&Y, facebook, twitter.  Start chucking out some interesting and fun content.  Get people seeing the byte.  Perhaps the class could run a competition for the best video footage.  Demo days??? Do they exist?  get people in the boat.  If i really is as good as you say it is the only way to sell something is to get people to try and buy in to it.

I must stress, the only real way to gain traction in this market place nowadays is hard work!  Thats from all parties involved.  You need a class association with volunteers who are willing to go the extra mile and i don't just mean fulfilling their role.  Going above and beyond.  The builder or dealer needs to support and push!  

Finally you need to think out side of the box.  Perhaps change the style of racing you offer.  I am working on various things with the Zero's to help develop our offering in to something people want to participate in,  be a part of.  Something that makes people want to travel.

Again, these are just my thoughts.  I know how difficult it is.  Especially when the class is small.  But hard graft, a bit of luck and out of the box thinking now.  Will hopefully pay dividends going forward.


Edited by Null - 07 Aug 15 at 1:07pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 15 at 12:40pm
Starting on the same line IS participation.

It's certainly true that if you want to be a seperate class you will need something that differentiates you from a number of similar boats. The swingers class, or the whisky chaser class, or the 20 minutes a race class or something. Otherwise you will struggle for numbers against the Radial, Solo and Aero 7 and just be a bunch of mates sailing together. Nothing wrong with that in the short term, but it's not a nice feeling having to break into a small group of well established friends and is not a path to sustainable numbers imho.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 15 at 12:39pm
I was surprised the 200's were down on numbers this year. I expected around 100 boats as Abersoch is a fantastic venue. In fact it's my favorite, and I was gutted when I found out they'd be there. It just happened that this year I'd got a few other week long holidays which are kind of one off trips that have consumed my leave. 

Personally travel for a week long event isn't much of an issue. I don't mind a day in a car for a week of sailing. Travel does put me off for opens though as it often feels like you've spent more time driving than racing. 

I think things go in cycles though, and often after a bumper year you see a drop off. Maybe clashing with 29er nationals cost us a few younger sailors though. 

What is for sure is the 200 nationals in Abersoch looked immense, and I seriously feel like I've missed out. Not sure where they will be next year, but I know I'll be there. 




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fish n ships View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote fish n ships Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 15 at 12:38pm
Another concern is that out of the top 30 at the 200 nationals 6 boats are from what i'd consider to  be northern clubs.  
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iiiiitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 15 at 12:27pm
Originally posted by Peaky

Originally posted by iiiiitick

Regarding shared Nationals. I do take your point Peaky but I think most classes, ourselves included, would wish to retain their identity. Even sharing with boats of a similar PY one would want your own start.

Well if you don't try anything different you'll get the same outcome - small and dwindling turnouts. Sorry, but this stove piped outlook is why the rot sets in. Satisfying the 6 sailors you have rather than enticing the 60 million potential ones you don't.

How does starting on the same line encourage more participation? Personally I think the more successful classes, not the super successful classes, have a clear social identity. Lightning do ok because they are like a travelling club, mates together. 

The problem with Byte is that the identity is vague. Youth boat? Ladies boat? Lightweight boat? No clear identity. Helm age at the Nationals, 14 boats by the way, winner first, 29, 28, 14, 55, 65, 38, then the girls, 43, 24, 26, 68, 60ish.

In my opinion the core of sailors should be in the 20-40 group....on slimline tonic.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 15 at 10:47am
Originally posted by iiiiitick

Regarding shared Nationals. I do take your point Peaky but I think most classes, ourselves included, would wish to retain their identity. Even sharing with boats of a similar PY one would want your own start.

Well if you don't try anything different you'll get the same outcome - small and dwindling turnouts. Sorry, but this stove piped outlook is why the rot sets in. Satisfying the 6 sailors you have rather than enticing the 60 million potential ones you don't.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 15 at 10:37am
Originally posted by Simon Lovesey


Originally posted by davidyacht

Key issue with championships IMO is to ensure that sailors have allocated the spare time in their lives to go to a championship.  So there needs to be a sufficiently strong vibe from the previous championship to make you want to do the next one.
With this in mind, classes have a habit of kicking themselves in the foot by clashing with other major events or choosing poor venues and the numbers ratchet down, and it is always hard to regain the momentum.

Calendar congestion is one of the key challenges facing any sport,  not only are we competing for people's scarce leisure time but sailing has a habit of competing with itself with numerous event clashes, which usually means diluted fleet sizes.
Other sports manage to have a centralised calendar,  where events have to apply and be selected to be listed.  This helps manage over laps and potentially improves the quality of events.  Sailing is crying out for this approach and management.  

Totally agree.
Case in point right now, the 200 and Solo Nats are on at the same time. I know many sailors sail both.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iiiiitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 15 at 9:52am
went to the Ovington Inlands at Grafham a few years back (when Byte was Ovi). Very well supported, 40,ish MPS, 49er, ect. etc. But it was in October and bloody freezing!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iiiiitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 15 at 9:46am
What do the RYA do again.......?

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iiiiitick View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iiiiitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 15 at 9:44am
Originally posted by Simon Lovesey

Originally posted by davidyacht

Key issue with championships IMO is to ensure that sailors have allocated the spare time in their lives to go to a championship.  So there needs to be a sufficiently strong vibe from the previous championship to make you want to do the next one.

With this in mind, classes have a habit of kicking themselves in the foot by clashing with other major events or choosing poor venues and the numbers ratchet down, and it is always hard to regain the momentum.


Calendar congestion is one of the key challenges facing any sport,  not only are we competing for people's scarce leisure time but sailing has a habit of competing with itself with numerous event clashes, which usually means diluted fleet sizes.

Other sports manage to have a centralised calendar,  where events have to apply and be selected to be listed.  This helps manage over laps and potentially improves the quality of events.  Sailing is crying out for this approach and management.  


Very true Simon. Sometimes even the best ideas suffer.......
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