Dinghy choices

   OK, I was (20 years ago) an avid sailor and loved dinghy sailing. We've recently moved to Northumberland and have a very active and well organised sailing club on the local reservoir. 
Now the kids are 8 and 5 we have decided to get involved with the club so I am therefore looking for a dinghy. My wife is a novice as well.

Now, budget is under £1000. Until I can prove it is something that we would start to take very seriously then RS Ventures are out of the picture. 

So - the criteria are:
1/ ideally it can take 3/4 of us at a time (however, SWMBO and I are both 6ft and the Boy is already as large as an 11 year old)
2/ it must be transportable enough to load up on the car trailer and take to the coast without too much bother (launching at the club isn't a problem because it has many superb slips)
3/ it must come in under £1000 ideally £700
4/ It must be stable to inspire confidence in beginners but also provide interest and challenge to an experienced helm and be able to be crewed solo
5/ideally it will be able to mount a seagull or similar outboard
6/It must be fairly straightforward to rig
7/ it will be used for learning, friendly club racing and cruising (by me - sea cruising)
8/ it MUST be a boat you sit in rather than on. I have no interest in a windsurfer with a hole in it and my wife doesn't either
9/ the dinghy will spend 95% of its time at the club and can therefore be left with standing rigging up, however I would like the ability to quickly load and deploy elsewhere

The club has substantial Mirror, GP14, Laser and Topper Fleets as well as a large handicap fleet

Now, the budget effectively rules out most modern and plastic boats. Yes, I'd love an RS Venture and yes, the family would probably take to sailing quicker with one but I simply don;t have the cash available for one at this point.

I'm not scared of a wooden boat and am a very competent handyman/mechanic and can tackle 99% of maintenance jobs myself.
The models I have been considering so far:

1/ Mirror.
+: cheap to buy (£350 upwards), parts/knowledge very easy to find, fun to sail, ideal learning craft, spinnaker, tough, light enough to go on the car roof, can fit an outboard, can be handled by a child. Quick to deploy
-: small for us, might be too 'wet' at this stage

The Mirror is the ideal boat in so many ways but I am just worried that it is too small. If my wife could sail now I would buy two (one can go on roof one on trailer).

2/ GP14
+: cheap to buy (£600 upwards), would take all of us, stable but provides helm challenge to sail well, can fit outboard, GRP Hull even at this price
-: heavy to lug about on land, bit big for a kid to helm without supervision

3/ wooden Wayfarer - 
+/ big, forgiving, stable, great day cruiser, great boat for the sea, lots of storage for picnics
-/ heavy, really out of budget, too big?

4/ Bosun (stop giggling at the back there!)
+/ tough, quick to rig and deploy, numptie proof, engaging to sail, sea worthy, stable, tough, tough, tough, about as big as a GP14, GRP hulls
-/ finding one that hasn't been completely 'sea cadetted', parts (Blossom still supply the MOD so parts are priced for a fixed market and are quite expensive), heavy, designed to teach seamanship so not totally suited to inland racing, quite slow compared to some boats - require the jib to come about - never seen one with an outboard

I love Bosuns and most sailing I have done has been in one. If we were using on the coast then I wouldn't hesitate as they are very seaworthy and teaching seamanship is an advantage

5/ Puffin Pacer
I don;t know a lot about them -finding one will be the challenge, there is one for sale in Edinburgh that looks OK but hasn't been on the water for years

6/ Otter?

7/ something amusing - a gaff lugger - 
- I'd rather teach on a single mast boat just now
- I'd love a Drascombe or a tideway but it ain't going to happen

8/ Enterprise - yes I love them but I'm not sure if I'd class it as a beginner's boat, the aren't very forgiving

so, reading the above it looks like it's going to be a toss up between the Mirror and the GP14 - heart says Mirror but head says GP14 - 

thoughts and suggestions would be really helpful.

I have asked the club if they cold ask a current owner of each boat to perhaps take us out to see which the family prefer

It's worth bearing in mind that I don;t see this as a permanent solution. If the family take to this then I would be looking to probably buy myself a mirror for solo cruising at some point.

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BarnacleBill Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Newbie Joined: 14 May 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3	Post Options Post Reply Quote BarnacleBill Report Post Quote Reply Topic: Dinghy choices Posted: 14 May 15 at 2:55pm
	OK, I was (20 years ago) an avid sailor and loved dinghy sailing. We've recently moved to Northumberland and have a very active and well organised sailing club on the local reservoir. Now the kids are 8 and 5 we have decided to get involved with the club so I am therefore looking for a dinghy. My wife is a novice as well. Now, budget is under £1000. Until I can prove it is something that we would start to take very seriously then RS Ventures are out of the picture. So - the criteria are: 1/ ideally it can take 3/4 of us at a time (however, SWMBO and I are both 6ft and the Boy is already as large as an 11 year old) 2/ it must be transportable enough to load up on the car trailer and take to the coast without too much bother (launching at the club isn't a problem because it has many superb slips) 3/ it must come in under £1000 ideally £700 4/ It must be stable to inspire confidence in beginners but also provide interest and challenge to an experienced helm and be able to be crewed solo 5/ideally it will be able to mount a seagull or similar outboard 6/It must be fairly straightforward to rig 7/ it will be used for learning, friendly club racing and cruising (by me - sea cruising) 8/ it MUST be a boat you sit in rather than on. I have no interest in a windsurfer with a hole in it and my wife doesn't either 9/ the dinghy will spend 95% of its time at the club and can therefore be left with standing rigging up, however I would like the ability to quickly load and deploy elsewhere The club has substantial Mirror, GP14, Laser and Topper Fleets as well as a large handicap fleet Now, the budget effectively rules out most modern and plastic boats. Yes, I'd love an RS Venture and yes, the family would probably take to sailing quicker with one but I simply don;t have the cash available for one at this point. I'm not scared of a wooden boat and am a very competent handyman/mechanic and can tackle 99% of maintenance jobs myself. The models I have been considering so far: 1/ Mirror. +: cheap to buy (£350 upwards), parts/knowledge very easy to find, fun to sail, ideal learning craft, spinnaker, tough, light enough to go on the car roof, can fit an outboard, can be handled by a child. Quick to deploy -: small for us, might be too 'wet' at this stage The Mirror is the ideal boat in so many ways but I am just worried that it is too small. If my wife could sail now I would buy two (one can go on roof one on trailer). 2/ GP14 +: cheap to buy (£600 upwards), would take all of us, stable but provides helm challenge to sail well, can fit outboard, GRP Hull even at this price -: heavy to lug about on land, bit big for a kid to helm without supervision 3/ wooden Wayfarer - +/ big, forgiving, stable, great day cruiser, great boat for the sea, lots of storage for picnics -/ heavy, really out of budget, too big? 4/ Bosun (stop giggling at the back there!) +/ tough, quick to rig and deploy, numptie proof, engaging to sail, sea worthy, stable, tough, tough, tough, about as big as a GP14, GRP hulls -/ finding one that hasn't been completely 'sea cadetted', parts (Blossom still supply the MOD so parts are priced for a fixed market and are quite expensive), heavy, designed to teach seamanship so not totally suited to inland racing, quite slow compared to some boats - require the jib to come about - never seen one with an outboard I love Bosuns and most sailing I have done has been in one. If we were using on the coast then I wouldn't hesitate as they are very seaworthy and teaching seamanship is an advantage 5/ Puffin Pacer I don;t know a lot about them -finding one will be the challenge, there is one for sale in Edinburgh that looks OK but hasn't been on the water for years 6/ Otter? 7/ something amusing - a gaff lugger - - I'd rather teach on a single mast boat just now - I'd love a Drascombe or a tideway but it ain't going to happen 8/ Enterprise - yes I love them but I'm not sure if I'd class it as a beginner's boat, the aren't very forgiving so, reading the above it looks like it's going to be a toss up between the Mirror and the GP14 - heart says Mirror but head says GP14 - thoughts and suggestions would be really helpful. I have asked the club if they cold ask a current owner of each boat to perhaps take us out to see which the family prefer It's worth bearing in mind that I don;t see this as a permanent solution. If the family take to this then I would be looking to probably buy myself a mirror for solo cruising at some point.

BarnacleBill Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Newbie Joined: 14 May 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3	Post Options Post Reply Quote BarnacleBill Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 14 May 15 at 3:16pm
	I'm intrigued by the Pacer, especially as it is no longer a national class. I have read that they are light and very stable. The one I have found in Edinburgh looks like it has been well cared for but hasn't been on the sea for 2 years. but it is cheap - very cheap!

Rupert Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956	Post Options Post Reply Quote Rupert Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 14 May 15 at 3:38pm
	I suspect you'll be too big for the Mirror, and for the Pacer, and I'd say the Otter too. People do learn in Enterprises - you can always put a smaller sail on - but for the money, the GP14 will be the stronger boat. The early glass Ents were very thinly built. The gaff/lugger cruising boats tend to be rather more money than old racing dinghies. In your position I'd either end up with a GP14 or something similar, like the Leader that was mentioned elsewhere.
	Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686

BarnacleBill Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Newbie Joined: 14 May 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3	Post Options Post Reply Quote BarnacleBill Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 14 May 15 at 7:22pm
	Thanks Rupert, I think you are spot on with the GP14. Today I had a chat with a mate who has a Mirror he said it would be a great solo boat but not really big enough for us! Pacer - yes, I'm coming to that opinion as well. I've had a chat with the Edinburgh owners and I don;t think it will work logistically. rather than try and get a bargain I'm going to have a good look at GP14s out there. There is a nice one in lancs that looks suitable and won't break the bank to either buy or collect.

sawman Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 04 May 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 205	Post Options Post Reply Quote sawman Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 14 May 15 at 7:33pm
	Torn between mirror and GP14? step forward the Miracle. its is the consummate family boat handy seats for the kids so they can sit in the boat rather than balance on the edge. It is is a light boat to handle on shore and easy enough to sail with kids - the jib is quite small so not difficult for them to hold on to (compared to the genoa of a GP) The Miracle performs much better than the mirror and is handicapped quite favourably if you are racing. there are a couple for less than a grand on apolloduck. My first Miracle came from ebay for about £200, and got the kids on the water I was really after a mirror, but couldn't find one in the north east for less than 1k I am glad now that the miracle popped up my new spangly boat cost quite a bit more than £200! happy hunting