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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: RS aero
    Posted: 18 Dec 14 at 11:36pm
Originally posted by Kev M

Originally posted by Null


Originally posted by alstorer

see eg most car forums...

See almost any forum for any other sport as well....imagine how Orange mountain bikes must feel.  
But we won't let the theory behind what a consumer led forum is meant to be about get in the way of ranting!


What happened to Orange?


The Orange 5 had a lively following of fanboys on STW (Singletrackworld a forum with a greater percentage of knob ends than even this place could consider. It resulted in an equal and opposite number of Orange 5 detractors.

Orange got labelled middle aged tubby IT professionals brand of choice which left them open to attack by certain boutiquey 'harder core' brands.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 14 at 7:36am
The orange five certainly does have its fanboys Graeme, also plenty of haters on STW.  However post anything on bike radar asking for comments and you get a tirade of abuse about the brand, the value for money, the fact they are out dated tech. Blah, blah, blah!  It's certainly not an equal split, like is almost is here.  The sailing anarchy split is weighted co pletely to the aero, mainly due to clean being in the pocket.  
My point is Graeme, what goes on here is no different to other sports.  In fact in true sailing form, it's watered down and very Middle class.

Unlike other sports forums people are not having pokes at products either.  Sure they are asking questions which others have tried their best to address with video clips etc.  It's more around some of the rubbish that's pushed out there.  Things like 5 star reviews by the what was the following couple of days class manager, or social media cock ups, or statements like 5 years of development by RS.  That's my issue, it always has been.  Sure I get confused by who they are targeting with the boat.  But I don't think it's a bad boat, I never have! The fact that is reported to of sold so well is testament to that.  It's not for me, but then it's not everything to everyman.  I understand it's a business at the end of the day, with this in mind it's up to me if I chose to challenge.  The fact this debate often turns to arguments is various people seem to only be able to handle objection with personal attack or by trying to cheapen other credibility.

You more than anyone know that there is no such thing as bad publicity.  Many of the challenges that have been posted on here have been countered with video, which is great for rs.  You should also cast your mind back to the d1 debate when you personally as well as others destroyed the d1 on here.  Having not sailed it! Or having any intention of buying one.  You had bought a 100 and you were a fanboy!  So please don't be a hypocrite.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 14 at 7:59am
You simply cannot remotely say there is an aero bias on the forum. The key difference is that those people with neither boat are fed up with constant niggling by yourself and others who have dzero's at the aero and RS. 

Those of us have decided that the aero happens to be the boat we will be sailing next year have simply been standing up to the extreme bias an non stop negativity that comes this way from a limited group of people attacking the boat, having never sailed one. 

However, on the contrary, everyone else  including those with aeros has been mature enough not to start laying in to the Dzero in some for t*t for tat bitch fest. 






Edited by SimonW99 - 19 Dec 14 at 8:01am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 14 at 8:29am
Originally posted by SimonW99

You simply cannot remotely say there is an aero bias on the forum. The key difference is that those people with neither boat are fed up with constant niggling by yourself and others who have dzero's at the aero and RS. 

Those of us have decided that the aero happens to be the boat we will be sailing next year have simply been standing up to the extreme bias an non stop negativity that comes this way from a limited group of people attacking the boat, having never sailed one. 

However, on the contrary, everyone else  including those with aeros has been mature enough not to start laying in to the Dzero in some for t*t for tat bitch fest. 




b

Did you read my post or just go off into a hissy fit?  I never said that there was aero bias here!  You mention those of you, but as yet Simon we have only really heard from you.  Where do you think the negativity comes from?  Maybe another conspiracy theory?  Maybe Rodney calls members of the forum and offers free boats to help sway forum traffic???.....that's not his style I'm afraid.

If you read my posts I have not been negative about the aero, I just don't like the bullsh*t that comes out from rs towers.  Which actually makes me negative towards the aero as a boat.  Like I said above (try reading it) I actually don't think its a bad boat.  But if I don't think a video or a picture of a boat claiming to be heading upwind is actually making correct vmg or fitting for the video then I will call it!  Same as I would and did when devoti posted a clip of the d1 pacing a 700.


The point remains Simon.  If this thread you started not had people asking questions, debating (most of the objections have been fielded by you and others well) then you would still be stuck with the second post of a tumbleweed!  Left eagerly awaiting Petes next video on the aero facebook group. Oh and if we are talking about being mature I noticed the sly dig Pete had at the zero in his capsize video commentary.  Which he later edited.  Very mature.  Poking holes in the boat itself......

So Simon, if you are going to start the person Internet flogging.  I know I am a zero fanboy, much like you are an aero.  But just because don't seem tom be able to debate a point without taking something as a personal dig at a boat you do t yet own doesn't mean it is.  Surely you can see why (many others btw not just James and I) get fed up with some of the claims made, or dubious tactics.  If the boot was on the other foot and Suntouched made those kind of claims I am adamant that you challenge it.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 14 at 8:39am
The only thing I can recall being bitched about with the D1 (at least by those who weren't trashing the whole concept) was the foredeck being a 1980s colour and shape. Devotti did something about both, so I assume we weren't the only ones to thing as we did.

Simon, it is SA that Null is saying has an Aero bias. As it is a fair bet to say that anything and everything over there will be trashed at some point, it is best bet to ignore good and bad, though.

Trashing the Zero, or the marketing/builder/distribution? About the best anyone has come up with is the lack of gunwales to pick it up by. I'm sure if they ever say or do anything stupid, someone will fail to believe it wasn't a viral marketing ploy.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 14 at 8:51am
I beleive the thread was removed Rupert, it was more around how far forward the mast was, how awful the wings were, how expensive it was the bathroom colours, for deck shape.  Etc. etc.  those that will remember I was also pretty tough on the boat.  Mainly because the Italians and Luca came here and posted a load of nonsense.  Same as happend with the aero.  So at least I am consistent.  I even had a PM from Rodney at about 3pm in the midst of a breakdown over the whole trashing of the d1.  I won't name names, but people close to this thread even booked d1 demos only to conveniently meet up with an rs director on the water in his 100.  It was worse than all this, which has after all been t*t for tat around marketing and picking up on people comments about the boat.  What's come back from several people my way and James' has been a fair bit of personal attacking and cheapening.  We are both as you know pretty thick skinned, it's just a shame some people can't go down the debate route rather than getting personal!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 14 at 9:04am
I am ashamed to admit back then I said the D one was ugly and would never catch on.  Oops.  Embarrassed
the same, but different...

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Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 14 at 9:05am
Now I know that I haven't sailed an aero, but I was wondering about a couple of things if that's allowed.

When I viewed it at the show I was concerned about the cleats on the side deck. The appear to be the cheap horrible type that you get on a laser boom. Those are awful for adjusting once the pressure is on the rope cos it gets pulled ever tighter into the cleat. Is this a problem on the aero?

Also it appears that the rope after the cleat is taken away through the deck very quickly, leaving a very short length of rope too grab to perform the adjustment with. Again is this a problem?
Everything I say is my opinion, honest
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 14 at 9:08am
Originally posted by winging it

I am ashamed to admit back then I said the D one was ugly and would never catch on.  Oops.  Embarrassed

No shame there nessa, Muhammad Ali is/was never attractive to me, but when he is in the ring wow!

FWI. I never found the d1 a pretty boat, far from it in fact.  Amazingly with such an Italians influence it's form over beauty as the first design brief!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 14 at 9:12am
Originally posted by winging it

I am ashamed to admit back then I said the D one was ugly and would never catch on.  Oops.  Embarrassed

I agree the D-One is not a pretty boat at all...until you see it on a kite reach fully powered up (like they were at Oxford). Then the boat does look stunning.
Paul
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