Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Nice new Laser for Christmas |
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Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 01 Dec 14 at 8:15pm |
Its a shame that the marketing department know nothing about boats, but other than that I can't see what the fuss is about. Laser mast rake is as it comes out of the mould, and boats are built and supplied as they come. It had already been said on here that the chances of a company being allowed to go and weigh boats on mass and select the light ones was pretty much zero, so why is it that now the company have said that they don't, do people start doubting them? Bored on a Monday evening, I suppose.
Maybe I should apply for a job doing their copy writing. I know enough about boats to be able to tell when something is nonsense and I can manage to string a sentence together without too many errors. Maybe I could do the job from home at the end of a laptop, as I don't want to live in Northampton! |
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Oh come on guys. The screwup is credible, in fact, as it suggests poor quality control (in the office rather than on the boats) and non sailors doing the work it reinforces more than a few prejudices. Ceasing new boat releases or getting a measurement process in would be way OTT, especially as, even if something of the sort had been going on, almost certainly it would be exploiting tolerances and the boats would measure anyway. Be reasonable. In fact I'd argue that if the Laser manufacturers were able to reduce build and QA tolerances, and have a policy of selling outliers to sailing schools and so make the active racing fleet even more even than before that would be something that should be applauded. Perhaps the big lesson here is to have some real sailors involved in your company who might spot stuffups like that... Edited by JimC - 01 Dec 14 at 8:16pm |
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Vronny ![]() Posting king ![]() Joined: 31 Mar 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 121 |
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I wonder if they've sold any of these Z420s. They are part of the LaserPerformance boat range, produced in the USA for college/uni racing.
A bit strange how they are part of the Sailboats Cyber Monday mega deal. They haven't even said what the price is - so how would you know if it's a good deal or not. |
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laser193713 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 13 May 09 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 889 |
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Strikes me as though it was a marketing attempt which was rightly rumbled, passing it off as a mistake meant to advertise a completely different boat is a very poor attempt to pull the wool back over our eyes. It is obviously a contentious issue in the laser class that there are variances in mast rake and hull weight and something that a company such as Sailboats are quite right to tap into I guess, just a shame they did it in such a crude and frankly quite stupid manner. Marketing gone wrong, no, well yes, but not for the reasons they explain. I know I won't be buying any boats from them now.
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Often ascribed to Napoleon Bonaparte (by me amongst others), but nowadays I'm not convinced. Very valid though. Edited by JimC - 01 Dec 14 at 9:21pm |
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Bruce ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: 28 Apr 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 13 |
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Respectfully disagree JimC.
Either it's true or it isn't. No amount of talking will put this genie back in the bottle. There have been rumours about these differences (weight and mast rake) for years. Now it's been published. This issue needs to be put to rest and fast!! Not with talk but with facts from someone who the Laser community can trust. It's not a conspiracy, it's either a lighter boat or not. It's got a different mast rake or it hasn't. If it's true, then it needs to go further to protect the Laser as a class. If it's false then we can all compete for the Olympics (or whatever) with minds put to rest...
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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If people want to see a conspiracy theory they will, and nothing LP or Sailboats can do will stop them. What evidence would convince you? That's a serious question. That there are differences between production Lasers is inevitable. That the differences might be enough to make a difference on the race track is possible, but to the best of my knowledge no-one knows and it might be better not to know.
But the only way you could find out would be to conduct an extensive two boat testing exercise with boats off the production line. It would be a hell of a job. I helped to an exercise like that with Toppers some years ago when they were evaluating centre mainsheets. The results came out that differences caused by the sheeting method were tiny compared to the variations in the sailors and in their individual race performances, however they were *just* statistically significant and the stern main came out faster. Nowadays everyone uses centre mains on Toppers anyway so clearly no-one actually believes science anyway... Edited by JimC - 01 Dec 14 at 10:08pm |
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blaze720 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 28 Sep 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1635 |
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Best thing about conspiracies is you can never really prove
otherwise. Get real - anyone could weigh the bloody things and
shout foul at a major event ! After all we all know that NASA never went to the moon... or they went Mars instead. Elvis is still serving up Ice-cream in Albania and Tony Blair was a Russan Agent .. or was that in fact a CIA one ? ... Mike L. |
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Bruce ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: 28 Apr 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 13 |
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What are you talking about? An on the water boat test is not needed. We are talking about one retailer who is advertising that they have one or more Christmas specials (red hulls) that are lighter and have better mast rake than other Lasers. I expect they also have other Laser hulls in stock.
All this can be put to rest in a couple of hours if the hulls are weighed and the mast rake measured in the presence of a someone (UKLA exec?) who the Laser fleets trust. Maybe the class measurer? Someone official. If the advert was a mistake then the data and the UKLA exec will back them up. It will be case closed.
To do nothing is like saying it's all OK. |
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kneewrecker ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 09 Apr 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1586 |
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Bruce you've presented a simple solution, don't let that get in the way of those who seek to belittle your opinion.
Best case scenario, UKLA validate 'no discernible' difference and it was indeed a proof reading own goal. Can't see why that couldn't be achieved in 48 hours max... Unless they do have something to hide. Edited by kneewrecker - 01 Dec 14 at 11:10pm |
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