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Nice new Laser for Christmas
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Nice new Laser for Christmas
    Posted: 01 Dec 14 at 10:39am
Originally posted by kneewrecker

precisely... and you might as well buy your sails there too now, considering the 'official channel' are undermining the entire programme with lighter hulls.

Don't think Dan and co would be too impressed if I bought a sail from them...plus it would fit  Wink
Paul
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 14 at 10:11am
precisely... and you might as well buy your sails there too now, considering the 'official channel' are undermining the entire programme with lighter hulls.
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 14 at 9:52am
Originally posted by kneewrecker

 

There are plenty of other reputable chandlers and suppliers who put back into the industry without abusing their staff and the ethos of the sport.  A few pence saved on a cleat is no reason to furnish a shoddy outfit with our custom imho.


Hence why I will usually buy from Mr Chicken if buying ropes and the likes online or I will take a trip over to Grafham and buy from Jonti (supporting local).
Paul
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Null View Drop Down
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Posts: 745 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 14 at 9:36am
Not to mention the blatent ignoring of class rules at the winter handicap events a few years back!
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 14 at 9:29am
Originally posted by jeffers

I am told by a reliable source that if you follow the trial of companies for Sailboats and LP they all lead back to the same person....

this forum has followed that trail before- to no definitive outcome, although some of us retain our speculations about financing and exclusivity deals.

One thing that was clear, the folks who own sailboats weren't coming out of it as very nice people, and allegedly, when they took over Speed Sails and moved the business to an outsourcing model, left some of the machinists without salary payments that were due- and as a result, I no longer purchase anything from sailboats.co.uk or speedsails.co.uk.  

You can add purplemarine.com to that list as it's run by the same company with a different stylesheet on the website.

There are plenty of other reputable chandlers and suppliers who put back into the industry without abusing their staff and the ethos of the sport.  A few pence saved on a cleat is no reason to furnish a shoddy outfit with our custom imho.

This recent advert, which undermines the entire Laser sailing proposition, is just another example to add to the list of reasons to avoid sailboats.co.uk and their subsidiary brands.
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Posts: 745 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 14 at 9:22am
Originally posted by Chris 249

Originally posted by Null

Originally posted by Noah

Originally posted by Null

 

If in fact it's not true, then surely their ad is in breach of some advertising guidelines?

 

But the advert doesn't state what it is lighter than, nor by how much...

Regardless of that they are actually insinuating that it is lighter than 'Other' New Lasers. The ad is littered with breaches of the CAP advertising code:

"

3.1

Marketing communications must not materially mislead or be likely to do so.

3.2

Obvious exaggerations (“puffery”) and claims that the average consumer who sees the marketing communication is unlikely to take literally are allowed provided they do not materially mislead.

3.3

Marketing communications must not mislead the consumer by omitting material information. They must not mislead by hiding material information or presenting it in an unclear, unintelligible, ambiguous or untimely manner.

"

Or maybe, just maybe they are right and Laser sailing is not as 'One design' As we all thought.....

I would personally plump that the ad is the BS and UKLA or whomever manages the Laser class need to be all over this sh*t!!!

I am sure there are tolerances within Lasers (i am positive) But this ad really does ake sailing look like a joke!


+1

By the way, it looks like you were right and I was wrong about the Santander worlds; I wasn't aware of the current situation.
 

No worries Chris, but that makes the whole situation even more worrying in my mind! It’s such a competitive area of our sport (Laser Sailing) that people are desperately searching for that 0.01% performance gain. So you can’t but help, believe these stories that people are measuring kit, weighing it and having stuff left to one side. I am an outsider and looking in that’s how it looks. The absolute stupidity of this advert really undermines everything that ha been built up over the last 40 years. It fuels the fire of speculation. Now i know that sounds like an overreaction, but to me its really disappointing!
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 14 at 9:16am
Originally posted by Null

Originally posted by Noah

Originally posted by Null

 

If in fact it's not true, then surely their ad is in breach of some advertising guidelines?

 

But the advert doesn't state what it is lighter than, nor by how much...

Regardless of that they are actually insinuating that it is lighter than 'Other' New Lasers. The ad is littered with breaches of the CAP advertising code:

"

3.1

Marketing communications must not materially mislead or be likely to do so.

3.2

Obvious exaggerations (“puffery”) and claims that the average consumer who sees the marketing communication is unlikely to take literally are allowed provided they do not materially mislead.

3.3

Marketing communications must not mislead the consumer by omitting material information. They must not mislead by hiding material information or presenting it in an unclear, unintelligible, ambiguous or untimely manner.

"

Or maybe, just maybe they are right and Laser sailing is not as 'One design' As we all thought.....

I would personally plump that the ad is the BS and UKLA or whomever manages the Laser class need to be all over this sh*t!!!

I am sure there are tolerances within Lasers (i am positive) But this ad really does ake sailing look like a joke!


+1

By the way, it looks like you were right and I was wrong about the Santander worlds; I wasn't aware of the current situation.
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 14 at 9:15am
Originally posted by iGRF

Every time you rock or ooch, you cheat, give me the name of one of them that doesn't do that.

Plenty of extremely honest competitors rock and ooch very hard - in classes where it is allowed. Others may pump as hard as they can within their best judgement of where the rules alloow, and they sometimes may do it harder than other people think they should. The fact that opinions differ does not mean that anyone has cheated. This is of course very different from blatant cheating, which does go on.
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 14 at 9:06am
Every time you rock or ooch, you cheat, give me the name of one of them that doesn't do that.
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 14 at 8:57am
Originally posted by iGRF

When I talk of 'top guys' I'm referring to International Level sailors, I could name lots and their 'cheats' from tuned battens to special centreboards, being the supplier of kit to events its amazing what you find out on inspection of it at the return and nothing I've seen since i've experienced the full joys of dinghy sailing gives me any thought that what went on, probably still going on, in the International Windsurfing Race scene, was confined to that specific arena when it comes to specially 'tuned' One Design gear. We Brits didn't do anything like what the rest of the world did including some of you cheating b**tards from down under, so don't come the innocent with me.

Since I started my post by saying "there are some cheats" it's completely baffling why you would think I was innocent. I have been deeply involved in the class you mention and I have raced against many of those you would have raced against. 

The winners at national level in International classes are almost by definition also "international level sailors". I know for a fact that there was NO cheating by those who win nationals in some classes, and I'm extremely confident that the same can be said for many classes. For example, my arch-rivals in at least classes have been on the podium in world titles (the Masters, in one case) and after racing against these guys for years I am very confident that they are completely honest.

The fact that some top level people cheat (which I did not deny) does not mean that the winners are usually cheating, which is what you said. 


Edited by Chris 249 - 01 Dec 14 at 9:10am
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