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Nice new Laser for Christmas
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Kev M View Drop Down
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Posts: 346 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Kev M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Nice new Laser for Christmas
    Posted: 30 Nov 14 at 10:22am
Probably a storm in a tea cup. There's lots of assumption here that the boats are somehow out of class when in actual fact they might just be built to the lowest weight tolerance and whatever the optimum rake tolerance is. Assuming you can have such a thing on such a crap rig.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 14 at 11:00am
I don't think there's any assumption the boats are out of class. But what there is is a public statement by an official class supplier that not all Lasers are equal, which is a radical departure from how the class has been marketed for the last forty years.
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 14 at 5:22pm
Exactly...
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blaze720 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1635 		Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 14 at 5:31pm
Probably just somebody getting a tiny bit too excited with the marketing claims ..... such things do happen you know ! 

Anyway it seems to have worked as a lot more people now know that Sailboats are selling Lasers at a much more attractive price ....  thanks in part to the 'outrage' on this forum.

I'd assume they are really run of the mill Lasers ... and if the price was now 'right' it might be worth finding out more of the real facts etc ...

Mike L.


Edited by blaze720 - 30 Nov 14 at 5:34pm
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 14 at 6:49pm
Originally posted by Null

I think it would be important to establish if it's actually true.  If so it completely undermines the very basis as to laser sailing as a concept.  
If in fact it's not true, then surely their ad is in breach of some advertising guidelines?


Well their advert copy is a little out of date to say the least..
A complete range of New Laser Sailing Dinghies, Standard, Radial, 4.7, XD, Race ready for immediate collection or delivery. The Laser 1 was designed in 1970 by Bruce Kirby. It is 4.20m long, 1.39m wide and has a hull weight of 58.97kg. The PY is 1078 for the Standard rir, 1101 for the Radial rig and 1107 for the 4.7 rig.]

I guess with the suppliers threat of removing supply if you do 'deals' removed, it's open house for retailers and you'd be in breach of EC law on Retail Price Maintenance if you tried take them to task.

Are they a 'dodgy' outfit? I tried to talk to them about those foils for the Laser, but they didn't have much idea.
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 14 at 9:56pm
Does any squaddie want a red Laser? Surely it would show up lovely on the startline?
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L123456 View Drop Down
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Posts: 500 		Post Options Post Options   Quote L123456 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 14 at 10:03pm
Originally posted by Bruce

Advertising lighter weight and differences in mast rake is a BIG concern, and maybe the UKLA should declare the boats sold as that way as not legal because they are against the spirit of the Laser class.

Lighter weight & special mast rake ... WTF is going on here ....

This is completely against what Laser sailing is all about ... is this for real?
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ds2 View Drop Down
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Posts: 30 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ds2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 14 at 10:15pm
Originally posted by L123456


Originally posted by Bruce

Advertising lighter weight and differences in mast rake is a BIG concern, and maybe the UKLA should declare the boats sold as that way as not legal because they are against the spirit of the Laser class.

Lighter weight & special mast rake ... WTF is going on here ....
This is completely against what Laser sailing is all about ... is this for real?


I am afraid it is.
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 14 at 10:38pm
So, getting back to the bit where I told you all long ago, there is no such thing as 'fair' One Design racing and the top guys that win, usually have some form of 'cheat' going on. It's been that way ever since the Windsurfer Class in my world, and we knew back then the Laser world was the same.

I can't believe it has been so publicly admitted for profit, but there you go, you can tell me now.

iGRF was right all along.

Edited by iGRF - 30 Nov 14 at 10:39pm
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 14 at 11:12pm
Originally posted by Bootscooter

A few years ago I bought a Laser mast top-section 2nd-hand from a well known Olympic Squad type, and it had been marked with the weight of the item.
I have heard stories (and they are only rumour and conjecture) that the top squad types will have different spars that are at opposite ends of the positioning tolerances of the collar to allow for a tall or short mast, dependent on conditions.

It's easy to understand why you may want to know the mast weight if you're doing a full-on campaign. After the gear has been allocated for the Games or worlds, well-resourced efforts may weigh the spars and measure the draft on the sails. One could then work out how the allocated rig would compare to a baseline one has been working with, and therefore how to re-calibrate the settings to get the desired sail shape. Of course, this is very different from the rumours that some people have access to special gear.

Having different spars for different conditions is plausible but one wonders whether it could backfire, since at worlds and nationals the spars, like the foils and sails, are all signed off so you can't change gear in a series.

It would also be interesting to work out exactly how much difference 5mm or so in mast height could possibly make; yep, maybe if you lose 0.5 seconds up a beat due to having the 'wrong' spar for that conditions you may not make a vital cross, but how many squaddies lose much more in less-than-perfect tacks, or tacking 5m out of the perfect spot, or easing up from straight-legging for 5 seconds, or any of the other ways to slow down. And across a full range of conditions how much will you gain with a taller or shorter mast?
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