Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Nice new Laser for Christmas |
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sandgrounder ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 01 Apr 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 220 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 28 Nov 14 at 8:41pm |
During a trip to Torbole (Garda) earlier this year I observed Robert Scheidt training in a new Australian built boat. I was informed that this preference was due to mast rake. I was also informed by a multiple World Championship winning coach that the factory in Australia measures the rake of every boat and supplies optimum rake to National team members as required. Similarly weight / stiffness of top sections are measured. Don't know if it's fact or fiction but the story must have some basis. |
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GarethT ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 21 Apr 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 714 |
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I'm sure all the top guys in all the smod classes (incl RS:X) do that.
Wherever boats are built to tolerances there will always be light ones and heavy ones. If the manufacturers can consistently make light ones now, perhaps there's a case for narrowing the tolerances. |
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maxibuddah ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 06 Mar 09 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1760 |
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I jus wish that I was good enough to benefit from all of the enhancements.
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Everything I say is my opinion, honest
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Medway Maniac ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 May 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2788 |
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I must admit, I thought the ad was a refreshing acknowledgement of the reality of top-flight Laser racing. People know there are good 'uns and bad 'uns. I seem to recall from the build spec that the original L3k SMOD had a hull weight tolerance of +-10%, that's about 15kg between lightest and heaviest possible, even if most were well within that! Presumably the Laser has a similar tolerance, suited to the qualifications/experience of many of the operatives who lay them up.
Mast rake and differences between sails is clearly a well known issue within the class, and would be a concern for any serious-racing buyer of a new Laser. So the ad. is apt to quell their fears and lure them in - surely a prime requirement of advertising. You'd have to be well into the class to know why it was a bad idea to have black bits on the new grp foils, but I guess there must be a theory. It is human nature to try to maximise possibilities, and the tighter the rules and smaller the possibilities, the more trivial will be the things considered (like promotion in the Civil Service :-)
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kneewrecker ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 09 Apr 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1586 |
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Precisely - as if the laser needs any help to undermine itself right now, why not sh*t all over the one single indestructible positive attribute the class, sailors and builders had? For what, Black Friday - those folks at sailboats are knobs. Edited by kneewrecker - 28 Nov 14 at 11:05pm |
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Medway Maniac ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 May 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2788 |
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Given the likely weight tolerances, I think the alleged positive of many SMODS - equal racing - is a myth in any case. Better be realistic, tacitly acknowledge that and offer a solution.
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Bruce ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: 28 Apr 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 13 |
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Geez. So much for SMOD. Wondering who acts as bobby for these clowns? The ILCA? Jeff Martin? Hoping that this is a runaway dealer and not LaserPerformance's latest antic to stir the pot. Probably has a plaque so is official, but this begs an orgy of questions.
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Chris 249 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
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1- My former arch rival was a three-time world Masters champ and the class technical manager. If anyone had access to good gear, it would be him - but not only did I never see any sign he had good stuff, but he was willing to lend me a boom which I bent, indicating that he did not have any particularly good stuff.
2- I asked Tom Slingsby (who I knew as an up and coming kid when I was doing Lasers seriously) whether he picked gear at the factory as claimed. He said directly that he was not allowed into the factory to do any such thing. I used to train with Tom's coach and be on a team with his former coach and that experience showed no indication that they are into 'special' gear. 3- I'm buying a sail from another Laser Olympian who I know; this sailor shows zero signs of being concerned about 'special gear'. 4- As Olympians have said, the last thing you want to do is to sail a "special", since the gear at Worlds and Olympics are supplied. Therefore top sailors must learn to sail 'around' any minor tolerance issues; getting used to one 'special' tolerances could kill you when you get to the big time and have to sail supplied gear. It's not as if Tom really needs the points to get selection for the Games! 5- Yes, the Australian Institute of Sport has measured Laser spars but basically, heavier = stiffer but for the reasons given above, this knowledge is not used to get 'better' masts for Olympians - source, my old PhD supervisor who was the head scientist at the AIS. 6- Yes, years ago some top class sailor blamed poor tolerances in charter gear for a poor performances at world titles (and knowing the guy a bit, I believe him) but this seems to have been solved. 7- Info at the last class meeting I attended was that tolerances are very tight. Figures were given and they sounded good, but I've forgotten them. The guy who gave the figures then got stuck into the builders for the current contract debacle, indicating that he was not kowtowing to them. 8- Yes, in other SMODs (including one Olympic class) I've sailed there were production changes that meant that some older hulls were better than newer hulls, according to Olympic coaches and medallists. But those were due to known and identified production changes. 9- The two guys I know who worked on the Aussie Laser production line are both qualified boatbuilders and national champions in other classes. Yes, such guys are likely to be more careful when they build a boat than other people. One of them did Lasers but had no success and would blame his old gear but never mentioned any 'specials' for other people, and he was a former drinking buddy. 10- You can spend one hell of a lot more to get an advantage on a non-SMOD - look at the cost of Shirley Robertson's Europe mast for the 2000 Games (20,000 pounds according to a detailed article in Seahorse, IIRC). Even if the Laser rumours are true, getting a special Laser would be a lot cheaper than getting a special Europe! 11 - Re "Don't know if it's fact or fiction but the story must have some basis." Sorry, but why do stories have to have some basis? Were there really WMDs in Iraq? Are vapourtrails from jets really chemical mind control weapons ? Is Obama really a reptile alien? There are stories about all these things but does that mean they have some basis? ![]() Besides that, if stories have to have some basis, then what happens in this case where I have given (true) stories that directly contradict the ones you have been told? 12- Yep, some SMODs have wide weight tolerances (as we found out in Tasars when we repeatedly went from 1 to 5 at the nationals on the runs, before we found out that our boat was 73.5kg and the lightest boat was about 59kg!) but that doesn't mean that Lasers do. By the way, Tasars now have a minimum weight and just about every well cared for boat seems to be competitive. In a non-Olympic SMOD I have bought two training sets directly from the former world champs and neither of them appear to be anything unusual. In the other SMOD I sail, the most successful individual kit at nationals over the past 10 years was bought second-hand and is good old stuff but nothing special. 13- Schiedt may well choose some builder's boats because they have a more consistent mast rake and that allows him to minimise variables, but that does not mean that anyone gets access to special boats from that builder. Edited by Chris 249 - 29 Nov 14 at 10:03am |
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Vronny ![]() Posting king ![]() Joined: 31 Mar 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 121 |
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Aha, Chris 249, that just shows the Australian Lasers and their kit is better than the European stuff
![]() I wonder where Sailboats get their Lasers from. If they're lighter, does that mean they're lighter than Lasers from other stockists? It's hard to imagine Performance Laser in the UK allowing the guys from Sailboats to weigh the boats in the factory and only pick the light ones. Or are Sailboats getting their boats from outside UK/Europe?
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Vronny ![]() Posting king ![]() Joined: 31 Mar 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 121 |
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Chris 249 made the point that Olympians don't want to sail 'special' lasers. They need to be able to sail well in any laser they're presented with. But that's not so true for people desperate to get into the squads and funding programmes. I bet the parent of an ambitious teenager would be keen to find the fastest kit. If there is such thing as fast laser kit of course!
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