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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: RS aero
    Posted: 10 Nov 14 at 3:54pm
Originally posted by jeffers

Originally posted by kneewrecker

Originally posted by Blue One

 
Glad to see you chilling out a little, but I think it would take a better man than me to have a positive influence on you.

I dunno- I ordered my new car today, it's got a hybrid engine; that's surely up there for sandal-wearing, carrot crunching, eco botherer brownie points?   LOL

You will turn in to a wood botherer next......

I note Nessa has a wooden solo for sale for a reasonable buck.....   but hey, hybrid has a green credential, and I can of course thoroughly bypass the fact that it's been shipped from Japan and the carbon load freight has to bare...


Edited by kneewrecker - 10 Nov 14 at 3:56pm
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Thunder Road View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Thunder Road Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 14 at 3:52pm
Originally posted by jeffers

Originally posted by kneewrecker

Originally posted by Blue One

 
Glad to see you chilling out a little, but I think it would take a better man than me to have a positive influence on you.

I dunno- I ordered my new car today, it's got a hybrid engine; that's surely up there for sandal-wearing, carrot crunching, eco botherer brownie points?   LOL

You will turn in to a wood botherer next......

You can't beat swept volume, remember electricity is only a means of energy storage Smile
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 14 at 3:36pm
Originally posted by kneewrecker

Originally posted by Blue One

 
Glad to see you chilling out a little, but I think it would take a better man than me to have a positive influence on you.

I dunno- I ordered my new car today, it's got a hybrid engine; that's surely up there for sandal-wearing, carrot crunching, eco botherer brownie points?   LOL

You will turn in to a wood botherer next......
Paul
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 14 at 3:30pm
Interesting discussion down the club.

Everyone can sail anything they like in a series and be counted. The score is attached to the Helm and they have the handicap of whatever they sailed in that race. Has anyone run a series on this basis?

Obvious downside is those who are serious by a quiver of boats and sails !
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 14 at 2:58pm
Originally posted by Blue One

 
Glad to see you chilling out a little, but I think it would take a better man than me to have a positive influence on you.

I dunno- I ordered my new car today, it's got a hybrid engine; that's surely up there for sandal-wearing, carrot crunching, eco botherer brownie points?   LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tmoore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 14 at 5:52pm
At the club I used to sail at, we had a number of older gentlemen who would sail a full rig but in the really windy stuff would struggle and so would rather not sail.  The general consensus was that they could use a radial rig but would be handicapped for the full rig.
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 14 at 10:35pm
Originally posted by Chris 249

re "I don't really see where this attitude ends"; I have the same problem in reverse, because I can't see where the "it's OK to change stuff" attitude ends either. Would it end when you had to have a full quiver of boats (or at least rigs) to win a hotly-contested PY series; you know, a Rater for light winds that are fading, a British Moth for light winds that are increasing, a Phantom for light winds with chop, all the way to a high-wind quiver consisting of a Contender, course slalom windsurfer, Opti and Cherub. Big smile

So, Chris, I'd agree that switching hulls for those of a completely different design is not on, and I'd also agree that upgrading to a carbon mast is OK, even if it is chequebook racing to some extent.

For me switching rigs in a Laser/Aero is also acceptable chequebook racing (probably as cheap as a carbon mast), for you it isn't, which appears to put rig switching in a sort of grey zone between the two extremes.  Which makes it unsurprising that some clubs allow it and others do not, and will continue to do so.

As I said earlier, we warned the Lasers that if their rig-switching led to them cleaning up, we would review the situation, but that doesn't look set to happen for one reason or another as explored above.  If the Aero also fails to clean up, I suspect rig-switching will be widely tolerated for that too.  So if you buy one, budget for two or three rigs!
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 14 at 7:54pm
Originally posted by kneewrecker

 
You make a very good point, I consider myself chastised for my lack of vision, and momentary lapse of respect for a 505, helmed, of course, by a really hot lingerie model with the sailing reportoire of an Ainslie training partner...

The problem with that is that you'd have to keep looking back; much better to have Red Hot Model* up front so you can look at the course and RHLM at the same time.

* I took out the lingerie part because straight female sailors may like to have a red hot model to look at to. And that lead me to wonder; does my wife prefer that I skipper because she doesn't want to be looking at me? Embarrassed  If I got her a young male crew who was a RHM would she suddenly decide to spend more time on the helm?


Edited by Chris 249 - 08 Nov 14 at 7:56pm
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 14 at 7:18pm
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

Originally posted by Chris 249

[QUOTE=SimonW99] it would be tough if people in a Laser, for example, lost a series because their opposition had access to more rigs. 
It is tough when people who sail an old boat get beaten by someone because he bought a new boat which costs considerably more than a second rig, but we don't try to guilt-trip people over it. I don't really see where this attitude ends. Maybe new sails should be subject to a 5-point penalty, or somebody who up-grades their Phantom or Blaze to a carbon mast should take a hit too?

Like you, I'm not coming from the viewpoint of someone who would be disadvantaged  - as a series scorer it is a pain accounting for people swapping rigs, but if it's the same hull and there's a PY available for use, that's good enough for me.

re "I don't really see where this attitude ends"; I have the same problem in reverse, because I can't see where the "it's OK to change stuff" attitude ends either. Would it end when you had to have a full quiver of boats (or at least rigs) to win a hotly-contested PY series; you know, a Rater for light winds that are fading, a British Moth for light winds that are increasing, a Phantom for light winds with chop, all the way to a high-wind quiver consisting of a Contender, course slalom windsurfer, Opti and Cherub. Big smile

It'd be fun in lots of ways, but scarcely equitable. And IMHO the Laser sailor who does something similar by switching from Rooster 8.1 to Radial would have so much advantage over their one-rig competitors of similar standard that it would simply not be worth turning up to race them. I'm currently in the battle for my club's Laser title, where all three rigs are scored together under PY. If any one of the other contenders started switching rigs they would almost certainly win, which destroys the whole sporting contest IMHO.

There seems to be a significant difference between a Phant sailor who gets a new mast and an Aero sailor who switches sail sizes - one is carrying out a change within class rules, the other is changing classes entirely.

I can see the point of saying "just let people sail what they want", but it does seem that the opposing point of view is also reasonable. And my "don't let them change" position may be weakened by the fact that I reckon beginners should be allowed to change down rigs, which could be unfair to beginners who don't have small rigs, but IMHO that's just an extension of the normal practice of making rules stricter as the level of competition increases.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Blue One Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 14 at 4:52pm
Originally posted by kneewrecker



Originally posted by Blue One

Originally posted by kneewrecker

It amuses me that you think the two are not directly connected.... if everyone switches rigs, then really, there is only need for one central EN, with local adjustment if the club deem it appropriate.  
Not that will happen- people tend gravitate towards one rig in the long term, thus creating a statistical anomaly if a small minority continue to switch about.  


As I said, it's about rig swapping and how CLUBS do returns not the system itself. Glad you find it amusing. Your posts always have the same effect on me. Well, I shake my head and then burst out laughing .

Logically, the various systems employed by the clubs to police the fun vs stringent class rules dichotomy and the overall PY system are co-dependent.  One does not work without the other.  
Where we do agree is not to overly worry about it too much- you politely reference custard creams, I just call it spreadsheet racing*, but the essence is very much the same.  
It's as good a system as any for taking grossly different boats and adding a competitive element to toddling about in them.  
(* you will see a softened lexicon - even acknowledging it as racing, rather than 'spreadsheet sailing'; you see Duncan, you can positively influence me  LOL)


Glad to see you chilling out a little, but I think it would take a better man than me to have a positive influence on you.
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