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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 07 Nov 14 at 9:16pm
Originally posted by SimonW99

If that means chucking on a radial when it's 18 knots then why not.

Surely the fact that it gives the sailor who has two rigs an unrated advantage over the sailor who only has one rig is enough reason?  

If the "switch rig" sailor wants to change rigs and not get scored (or have their small rig scored separately) then (IMHO) it's fine, but it would be tough if people in a Laser, for example, lost a series because their opposition had access to more rigs. And if it's "only a club race" then isn't it even more important to make sure everything is fair to the person who sails within class rules and at a lower budget? 

If we're dealing with beginners etc it's arguably a different thing. I introduced small sails for beginners to a class I use to run, but we also put mechanisms in place to ensure that those who only had the standard-sized sail were not disadvantaged.

In the end isn't this a difficult question where reasonable people can have different views, and therefore it's more complicated than "why not"?


BTW I have Radial and standard rigs, and I sail multiple hulls and in classes with multiple rigs so I'm not coming from the viewpoint of someone who would be disadvantaged if gear swapping was allowed.


 




Edited by Chris 249 - 07 Nov 14 at 9:32pm
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 14 at 2:31pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Level rating bands, rather than a box rule - simply a gathering of similar boats wanting to have fun on the water together.

Bloody windsurfers, thinking that dinghy sailors want to enjoy themselves.

lol! but yep... surely worth a try for a club that has nothing to lose?  

 Maybe one whose elected leader is rather cynical about the system anyway, and could give it a summer and report back?  Sure would be less hassle than selling the sailing public another rating system based on boat variables.  

If one particular class proves to be unpopularly fast or slow, it simply slips up the rating band.

Take the Phantom - old woodies race with OKs and Finns, new plastics join in with Blazes and 300s.


Edited by kneewrecker - 07 Nov 14 at 2:38pm
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 14 at 2:29pm
Level rating bands, rather than a box rule - simply a gathering of similar boats wanting to have fun on the water together.

Bloody windsurfers, thinking that dinghy sailors want to enjoy themselves.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 14 at 2:19pm
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

Originally posted by kneewrecker

As an aside, there's a wonderful article by John Claridge on the FP celebrating the life and contribution of Tony Hibbert.

Saw that article and thought of your 'box rule idea', funnily enough.  Shows it can work, but not to produce a 'boat for everyman".

I dunno- clearly there was an emphasis on Design & Technology in the combined class ethos.  And nothing wrong with that, development classes have brought us wonderful adavances.

However, I could quite imagine a lovely situation where G&T, not D&T, was the popular post-sailing discussion point.  

 D-Zeros, OKs, Lasers and mums n' dads bringing their kid's Aero along with the mummy pig or daddy pig rig... all racing together? 

Yes please, that would be rather lovely.




Edited by kneewrecker - 07 Nov 14 at 2:24pm
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 14 at 2:13pm
Originally posted by kneewrecker

As an aside, there's a wonderful article by John Claridge on the FP celebrating the life and contribution of Tony Hibbert.

Saw that article and thought of your 'box rule idea', funnily enough.  Shows it can work, but not to produce a 'boat for everyman".
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 14 at 2:08pm
Originally posted by Rupert

The handicap result is simply a way of measuring how well I did compared to how I thought I should have done.

that's a good way of viewing it, a benchmark rather than a 'race result'-  thanks Rupert  Thumbs Up
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 14 at 2:06pm
Originally posted by kneewrecker

Whether a club scores that result individually, or carries it through against the sailor, not the boat, is really is of very little consequence to me.


I'm in pretty much the same position for different reasons, and have a large choice of boats, but once I'm on the water I find the ones I enjoy most are where I have to concentrate hard to beat other boats on the water - easier when they are faster boats; when slower, I find I just get frustrated that I can't escape, and it all goes horribly wrong. The handicap result is simply a way of measuring how well I did compared to how I thought I should have done.
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 14 at 2:06pm
As an aside, there's a wonderful article by John Claridge on the FP celebrating the life and contribution of Tony Hibbert.  

He's credited for bringing together various classes together under the International Moth banner.  What amazing thinking, and diplomacy, I can't believe dinghy sailors were anything but what they are today- head in the sand, thinking 'in class', not category.


Edited by kneewrecker - 07 Nov 14 at 2:06pm
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 14 at 1:57pm
maybe so Peaky- however busy lives and small kids would make that a pipe dream to sail every weekend, so picking, choosing and negotiating based on forecasts becomes essential.  

I'm not moaning, it's my own choice....

Wednesday nights are a little easier to commit to, but even then the series opportunity is blown out by being out of the country for at least 4 weeks of the evening series, coupled with work commitments and those days when the trees aren't moving anyway, that means I'm only likely to be able to get to half at best- not enough to 'podium' and even a top 10 would be hollow, as it would ultimately come down to scoring by attrition and reducing DNCs on other similarly time poor individuals.

The point is, when I do show up, if I have the option to increase or decrease sail to increase the fun factor, then I will use it.  Whether a club scores that result individually, or carries it through against the sailor, not the boat, is really is of very little consequence to me, but I guess it could, depending on the club protocols, have some very insignificant influence to the negative on the PY release.


Edited by kneewrecker - 07 Nov 14 at 2:02pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 14 at 1:46pm
James, I honestly think you would get more enjoyment if you did actually care about your series result. Not for every series in the club year, but pick one and make it an ambition to 'podium'. That way, races are not just cruising in company with a clock ticking in the background, they are part of a bigger goal. If you just treat each race as a one off with no meaning, you have nothing to win for, you will put off that one sail until conditions are perfect and you will drift away from sailboat racing... Sound familiar?

Once you aim to get a series result, you will make the effort to get to the club even if it is only a 4kt forecast or pissing with rain. And you will try to do well, because it is no longer a meaningless drift. And once that competitive element comes back, the enjoyment will follow because you will see progress.
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