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The Tasar v the Icon

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rich96 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rich96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Tasar v the Icon
    Posted: 13 Oct 14 at 6:49pm
Originally posted by getafix

It's interesting that Tasars and Contenders are getting compared, I guess it's an open water question but on open water, I don't see why you'd go without a wire, particularly upwind.  In the more confined spaces then it's interesting and I wonder how both Tasars and Icon would fare against a modern N12?


On small waters a good 12 would beat a Tasar in lighter breezes. The Tasar does not roll take as well, sticks in the light and perhaps is limited by the fully battened main in those condition s?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rich96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 14 at 6:45pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Most of those boats don't have the dominant fleet in their countries of origin. Look at the OK fleet instead?Chris 249 appears to be suggesting that they CAN compete with the Contender - you are saying they can't - my suggestion was one explanation of the apparant dichotomy.



The best Ok sailors are from all over the world ?

There is no mystery - if Chris finds that the Tasars can beat Contenders on open water then the Contender sailors cannot be anything like as good as the Tasar sailors - there's no Aussie Tasar magic ?

Edited by rich96 - 13 Oct 14 at 6:47pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 14 at 6:32pm
It's interesting that Tasars and Contenders are getting compared, I guess it's an open water question but on open water, I don't see why you'd go without a wire, particularly upwind.  In the more confined spaces then it's interesting and I wonder how both Tasars and Icon would fare against a modern N12?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 14 at 6:30pm
Most of those boats don't have the dominant fleet in their countries of origin. Look at the OK fleet instead?

Chris 249 appears to be suggesting that they CAN compete with the Contender - you are saying they can't - my suggestion was one explanation of the apparant dichotomy.
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rich96 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rich96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 14 at 6:16pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Dare I say that the fleet standard of the Tasar in its home country, where all the tricks of sailing it fast will be known throughout the fleet, might be higher than in the UK, where the few boats are quite widespread and not used to big fleet competition?This is not an insult to UK Tasar sailors - the same applies to many classes, here and abroad.



No you cant !

We have world class Tasar sailors here

The differences between decent Tasar club sailors and 'world class' Tasar sailors' will be nothing like the pasting that they would get off a decent Contender (in open water in breeze) - full stop.

The Tasar, brilliant that it is, is a two person non trapeze, non spinnaker boat that, whilst quick, physically cannot be rocket ship fast.

And - why should the Tasar be sailed any better in the country of its origin - does that apply to Contenders, Finns, Five Os, FDs etc > - No

Edited by rich96 - 13 Oct 14 at 6:18pm
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blaze720 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 14 at 5:59pm

...... ...... you appear to be taking it rather too seriously.

You don't know my wife do you ? 

Er ...... anyway to answer your query ...with regard to ’seriously’ quite possibly (with tongue definitely in cheek much of the time .... you just don't get to know exactly when).  ‘Too' seriously though ? .... with the greatest respect possibly no more than many here including you Sir !  

Or could it be the reaction of some on this forum every time a few more breadcrumbs are dropped on the surface - and very happy to provide it occasionally we are as well.

Thing is that we are not the only ones who think something is less than optimal with the ‘vanilla’ raw PN system today. ..... and now more people ARE beginning to question the sample structure used are they not ?  Look at the discussions about sampling already, cos that is what they really are,  both for and against on this and other threads.

 The GL approach is not ideal, and not necessarily the whole answer but if you wanted any more proof that the venerable PN approach is being gently but widely challenged you don't have to look very far any more.  Nearly every major handicap event now uses the GL numbers, and many sailing weeks are going the same way as well...  Why ?

These are the facts that should be taken more seriously.    The real scratched record, and it is a very very old one now, is that the current approach is absolutely fine, "Of course it is just a few malcontents from a couple of minor classes stirring things up" ... .   "It was good for my old Dad, and his father before him ... and is for my children.... and will be for their children’s children etc ". You all know the sort of argument.....  

Wake up, if/when local clubs start using GL figures preferentially for club racing as well they might soon can the stock response  still remain the same ?  Surely not ....   Clear case of "evolve or die” maybe ?

Do remember this is a dinghy development forum – why on earth would we not discuss such topics here ?  If it annoys bores or provokes then don’t read this thread or perhaps any threads, but if you have a positive contribution or proposal people should pitch in.   So who does seek (or even benefit from) an un-questioning consensus with regard to the status quo ?  Well that is exactly why forums are so useful – so things can be questioned by all us proles out here.    

In time change will come, it as inevitable.   If the PN system becomes less and less important it really will have to adapt or die.    It will not happen tomorrow.. or next year  but it will  eventually.   We expect it to quietly evolve with regard to sample structure etc rather than be the subject of some real grass roots enquiry or headline overhaul.   But change, however introduced or presented will have to come.  Not ‘if’ but ‘when’ and how incrementally is the issue. 

When the PN system is again the default major handicap event one you will know it really has managed to evolve successfully   ... hopefully for those behind the scheme this will all be in good time !

Yes – many are lobbying for change and improvement and sailing forums are obviously a useful medium.

Right  that’s me done for now -  I’m on the wagon now (forum wise) until next week.  Life is  far too short etc .... suppose that just means I’m not taking this stuff seriously enough after all. Wink

Mike L.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 14 at 5:49pm
Dare I say that the fleet standard of the Tasar in its home country, where all the tricks of sailing it fast will be known throughout the fleet, might be higher than in the UK, where the few boats are quite widespread and not used to big fleet competition?

This is not an insult to UK Tasar sailors - the same applies to many classes, here and abroad.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rich96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 14 at 5:44pm
Originally posted by Chris 249


Originally posted by iGRF

 it's certainly not as quick as a Contender, we just held it on one reach and we can keep it at bay in light weather, but once the wire is engaged upwind, sorry - game over.

Funny thing is that down here the Contender is rated just 0.75% (approx) quicker than a Tasar. I don't think that's fair, but oddly enough once we get off our puddle and down to the wider waters the Tasars normally beat the Contenders. Mind you, our local Tasars include two ex world champs, and while the Contenders are good they are nowhere near that level.


Clearly they cant be - on open water a decent contender in any breeze will be in a different league to a Tasar. Here a Tasar is slower than a Phanton (PY) and a Phant is way slower than a contender in the breeze.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 14 at 5:32pm
Originally posted by iiitick

Garibaldi Jim?

Good idea, I'll put some on the shopping list.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iiitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 14 at 4:58pm
Originally posted by JimC

record's stuck...

Garibaldi Jim?

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