| Bruce Roberts classic 45 Valencia, Spain |
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| Free mast for Merlin Rocket - has a bend! Guildford |
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| Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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List classes of boat for sale |
Rise Of The Ok etc |
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Medway Maniac
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Joined: 13 May 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2788 |
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Topic: Rise Of The Ok etcPosted: 04 Oct 14 at 8:42am |
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Good point about the hat, Dan, mine does too! And of course it's in windy weather that L/D becomes most important, when you want max. thrust/heeling moment.
Blue One, I share your scepticism about manufacturers bike tests. Results depend on how they weight yaw, the wheels they fit and whether the dummy's legs are pedalling. Nonetheless, measurable improvements have been made, meaning you cover a set distance faster and/or use less energy, so an aero frame is handy if you have a flat stage. Likewise I'm sceptical about claims made for small-area, high aspect boards in, say, the 505 class. There are so many other, major contributors to drag upwind - hull hydrodynamic and aero - and high-aspect foils stall more easily. Nonetheless, I'd be loath to risk turning up at a 5-oh worlds with a large area, low aspect board. That 10% gain was experimentally measured, not merely theoretical, and the difference between Aero and OK is greater than that. We've had testimony from two people that the OK has plenty of room under the boom, too, so I find it hard to see any advance in the Aero rig over that of the OK, quite the contrary in fact. |
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Daniel Holman
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Joined: 17 Nov 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 997 |
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Posted: 04 Oct 14 at 7:54am |
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How come my hat always gets blown off then? Accept wind gradient in the light stuff but it scrubs sown to sea pretty well in any breeze else you wouldn't be able to see it on the water. |
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mongrel
Far too distracted from work
Joined: 27 Aug 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 304 |
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Posted: 04 Oct 14 at 5:35am |
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I think the end plate effect between the boom and deck is limited. It may look worth while in a wind tunnel, but in the real world, its acknowledged that there's not a great deal of wind between the water level and 1 metre above it. So unless you've got a metre of freeboard its probably better to give yourself a bit more room beneath the boom for ease of handling.
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Blue One
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Joined: 09 Nov 13 Online Status: Offline Posts: 317 |
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Posted: 04 Oct 14 at 12:48am |
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But how much of that 10 % is theoretical, and how much is real when sailing in all the ever changing conditions that happen in a race? Also what percentage is the increased drag of a higher boom in the total drag of the boat and sailor? And if an average sailor is more comfortable and quicker though the tack with a boat with a higher boom does this also out way the theoretical advantage?It's like bikes, a manufacturer will tell you it's new bike is 10 % more aerodynamic, but a bike is less than 1 % of the total drag of the bike and rider. So what do good riders do, go in a wind tunnel and get tested and this is where it gets messy. His best aerodynamic position, might not be fastest on the road, because it's too uncomfortable. Most of these things are a compromise.
Edited by Blue One - 04 Oct 14 at 12:50am |
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Medway Maniac
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Joined: 13 May 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2788 |
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Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 10:54pm |
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I like Dan's point about lowering the centre of effort more than my observation about induced drag, but I can't accept your reasoning, Jim. ![]() No way that's an 18" inch gap between the bottom of the boom and the deck at the mast (where it matters most, as you know); more like 5" or 6". And there's a deck flush with the gunwales beneath the boom. Whereas on the Aero: ![]() Put it another way, if you were running a wind tunnel test with the foils with those sorts of ratios of gap to floor:span, would you be happy there was no end-plate effect in either case? I'd say there would be an effect with both rigs, but considerably more with the OK. Marchaj recorded a 10% improvement in L/D by moving a Finn sail from 10" to 6" above the floor.
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iiitick
Far too distracted from work
Joined: 04 Jun 14 Location: gb Online Status: Offline Posts: 478 |
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Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 7:42pm |
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Bootscooter
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Joined: 15 May 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1094 |
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Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 7:31pm |
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The OK is an awesome boat, and one that teaches you so much about how rigs work. BTW, there's more space boom-to-floor in an OK than a Laser.
I love mine and can't wait to get started on refurbing my REALLY old one - it's going to be a rocket when done! |
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Rupert
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Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 3:08pm |
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I think you have to teleport to get to the other side on your boat, Jim.
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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JimC
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Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 2:53pm |
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On the other hand though, Dan, that area is in the worst of the turbulence and nonsense coming off the hull, is deep in the surface wind sheer in very light airs, and generally, per square foot the least effective on the boat... |so it comes down to balancing factors, as ever, and what's best in an open water boat sailed in turbulent sea breezes might not be so good on a lake.
But we agree that induced drag isn't much to do with it unless you can actually close the gap, as we do with jibs. Mind you, having made a case of sorts that higher booms might not necessarily be very wrong, lets look at my boat...
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Rupert
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Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 2:37pm |
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Surely Laser Radial for lightweights is far more common worldwide than the Byte?
The OK sits pretty much in the Laser space (maybe carries a bit more weight, but the overlap is huge) so that it survives at all really shows that people must value the boat. Edited by Rupert - 03 Oct 14 at 2:38pm |
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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