The Tasar v the Icon

Originally posted by iGRF That would be Graeme Fuller and Andrew Thompson

Originally posted by JimC If I've transcribed the the results correctly, there were three Icons and 5 Tasars with the following elapsed times. Icon     04:04:41 Icon     04:14:44                Icon     04:16:23                 Tasar     04:16:28 Tasar     04:23:21                Tasar     04:32:20                Tasar     04:37:36                Tasar     04:43:05                So all the Icons beat all the Tasars on the water. Now lets look at averages. If we average the corrected times for the Icons we get 04:20:00, and for the Tasars 04:25:47. If we average the corrected times of the first three Tasars we get 04:19:23. As Grf says, I think that kind of decides it, and it demonstrates how easily our perceptions can trick us as to what is really going on...

Just a couple more averages... The 3 icons averaged 04:11:56 elapsed time, the 5 Tasars 04:30:04, and the top 3 Tasars 04:24:03. That's 7% and 5% slower respectively. and 5% of 969 is 48, and 105% of 969 is 1017...

Edited by JimC - 01 Sep 14 at 12:50pm

Oh sure, but its not just him. The trouble is that its really hard to judge relative performance of classes on the water, and it is useful being able to take some real results and demonstrate how folks' perceptions can misdirect them. I'm surprised all 3 Icons finished above all the Tasrs on the water, usually classes are more mixed up than that.


Edited by JimC - 01 Sep 14 at 12:51pm

After about four hours of racing around the Isle of Sheppy Tasars finished 9, 16, 29, 30 and 31, with Icons finishing 10, 19, 22.

 

So is this the first real Tasar Vs Icon comparison, long race variable wind strength, flat water waves and tide.?

 

For what it’s worth, I make the following observations as the lead Tasar. After suffering a late night, excessive vino and early departure our start line performance was some what embarrassing!! We spent the dead down wind leg across the top of the Isle in catch up mode!

 

In about 14-16 Knots dead down wind our challenge was to keep the bluff bow out of the wave in front, careful surfing with 45 degree course changes gave huge gains. I suspect the Icon handled these conditions better and gradually pulled away, but not much until we started to round the top NE corner where on a broad reach they dramatically pulled away. We are too heavy for the tasar with the lighter weight tasar crews catching up. We noticed one Icon crew was standing for the entire down wind leg, that must have been a challenge!

 

Once beating in about 16-18 Knots we gradually hauled in the two rear icons, red is clearly fast! Not running aground, playing the shifts and clean air were paramount. The tasar planes freely up wind in 14 Knots of wind but must be in clean air and sailed flat. To keep in clean air over the years we have developed what we call our sling shot method of passing the “pinchers”. If we can’t get clear air and we are forced to pass rather than tacking off for clean air we encourage the lead pincher to pinch up at which time we ease the sheets bear off punch through the lee, accelerate and using the lift off the foils to come back up and onto our existing course. This is some times seen as sailing free, but pinching tasars is not fast. It seemed to us that the Icons were sailing excessively high and definitely not flat! I am looking forward to my try in one and think upwind I would trim the rig differently and sail it free and more importantly flat.

 

By the bridge, when the wind went light we were within two boat lengths of the red boat . Getting stuck behind about six cats and four other monos is not fast and we wasted at least 20 minutes, we wonder how the red Icon and Osprey got on? But that’s part of the fun of the event isn’t it? I suspect the bridge delay destroys true elapsed time comparisons.

 

Beating up the swale in failing wind saw the Icons very slowly catching , Deep reaching and running saw  them rapidly catching as we stayed too far out due to lack of tidal appreciation. There was no doubt the icon was faster in the failing wind , once rounding the corner on the run it was about keeping in the wind ribbons  and using the waves to accelerate. We were just pipped on the line by the chasing Icon.

 

The tasar probably had the advantage in the heavy wind and the Icon in the light, but that’s sailing. I looks to me that the PN for the Icon might be slightly harsh for the conditions we experienced on the day but suspect bridge delays were more significant!

 

We enjoyed it and the icons looked great.

Originally posted by Medway Maniac Originally posted by iGRF No it's not just me, the changing rooms are full of folk who think you've screwed things up royally. Which is why you need to resort to maths and physics rather than perceptions and averages. Bottom line, Jim, is that people are just too thick/in a hurry to get on top of the maths and prefer to go with wishful thinking instead.  Which probably accounts for the consistently poor governments that this country 'enjoys'.

I do so hope you don't include me in that insult..



Oh and I'm going to vote UKIP maybe they'll put a stop to Banjo playing up river creeks.

Oh and Rod I thoroughly enjoyed reading that, just as I was amazed at the speed you came through us up wind and yes we were stuffing it at that point, I was having a bit of a bad moment and using the tide to do the work, both you and the other Icon took us then.

But we did recover and you did sail too high (along with lots of folk) and we sailed low and punched less tide on the way out and I can't describe the joy it gave me getting someone as obviously good as you back, I'm sure it would never happen in none tidal water. I also did think about sailing assym down wind, indeed I set off at the start headed out to sea on port, but none of the other icons chose to do that so I followed their lead after a starboard hander forced a gybe on us.

Edited by iGRF - 01 Sep 14 at 3:51pm