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The Tasar v the Icon
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JimC View Drop Down
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    Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 12:14pm
Originally posted by JimC



If I've transcribed the the results correctly, there were three Icons and 5 Tasars with the following elapsed times.

Icon     04:04:41
Icon     04:14:44               
Icon     04:16:23
               
Tasar     04:16:28
Tasar     04:23:21               
Tasar     04:32:20               
Tasar     04:37:36               
Tasar     04:43:05               

So all the Icons beat all the Tasars on the water.

Now lets look at averages.
If we average the corrected times for the Icons we get 04:20:00, and for the Tasars 04:25:47. If we average the corrected times of the first three Tasars we get 04:19:23.

As Grf says, I think that kind of decides it, and it demonstrates how easily our perceptions can trick us as to what is really going on...


Just a couple more averages... The 3 icons averaged 04:11:56 elapsed time, the 5 Tasars 04:30:04, and the top 3 Tasars 04:24:03. That's 7% and 5% slower respectively. and 5% of 969 is 48, and 105% of 969 is 1017...

Edited by JimC - 01 Sep 14 at 12:50pm
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 11:47am
Originally posted by Medway Maniac


Originally posted by iGRF

That would be Graeme Fuller and Andrew Thompson

That would be the crew formerly known as Dumb, then.  Had Dumberer been at the helm we might have witnessed a true bandit performance.


Quite correct, this time he just had 'dumber' to put up with, as to the difference between the two, you'll have to ask him which one is the dumbest.
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 11:23am
Originally posted by iGRF


That would be Graeme Fuller and Andrew Thompson

That would be the crew formerly known as Dumb, then.  Had Dumberer been at the helm we might have witnessed a true bandit performance.
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 10:55am
I'm just joking with you- sounds like you sailed very well.  Irrespective of the handicap b**locks, you were not the first but not the last Icon, and as Jim says, the spread between you all was minimal.  Well done fella, and the crew's done his job of making the helm look good too.  

Shame the personal glory's been marred by your official and unofficial responsibilities to the boardsailing community... but we'll leave that on the other thread.  
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 10:51am
Originally posted by kneewrecker


, I read the results and saw Graeme Fuller came 19th out of 67 finishers, 70+ entries..... if that's not a bandit handicap at play, I'll eat my Sombrero.  


That would be Graeme Fuller and Andrew Thompson came 19th, in fact take the cats out and we are in the top ten of our Fast Handicap fleet, which is entirely testament to his saving my ass on numerous occasions when we could have stacked it.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 10:23am
Originally posted by kneewrecker

if that's not a bandit handicap at play,

The Icons were very closely matched, only a 5% spread in elapsed. That's very low bearing in mind a typical champs fleet is 20%. The Tasars, at 10% were also pretty even. I don't seem to have an easy way of extracting the numbers from the pdf into excel so haven't done any more crunching.
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 10:17am
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by iGRF

Well that kind of decided it, the icon is only very slightly quicker and that was due to a good start by them,


OK, lets examine this statement a bit.
If I've transcribed the the results correctly, there were three Icons and 5 Tasars with the following elapsed times.

Icon     04:04:41
Icon     04:14:44               
Icon     04:16:23
               
Tasar     04:16:28
Tasar     04:23:21               
Tasar     04:32:20               
Tasar     04:37:36               
Tasar     04:43:05               

So all the Icons beat all the Tasars on the water.

Now lets look at averages. If we average the corrected times for the Icons we get 04:20:00, and for the Tasars 04:25:47. If we average the corrected times of the first three Tasars we get 04:19:23.

As Grf says, I think that kind of decides it, and it demonstrates how easily our perceptions can trick us as to what is really going on...

I could have saved you the maths, I read the results and saw Graeme Fuller came 19th out of 67 finishers, 70+ entries..... if that's not a bandit handicap at play, I'll eat my Sombrero.  
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 10:03am
Originally posted by Punky

The Tasar is a fast boat in a breeze and the Icon's brief was to have Tasar-esque performance in those conditions and Phantom-esque performance in the light stuff.  So yes, in an individual breezy race you will not beat one over the water by much, but over a season of all weathers the Icon definitely needs a lower handicap than a Tasar. 


Well I'd say whoever designed it fulfilled the brief then, but by 49 points? Not really
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 10:03am
Originally posted by iGRF

Well that kind of decided it, the icon is only very slightly quicker and that was due to a good start by them,


OK, lets examine this statement a bit.
If I've transcribed the the results correctly, there were three Icons and 5 Tasars with the following elapsed times.

Icon     04:04:41
Icon     04:14:44               
Icon     04:16:23
               
Tasar     04:16:28
Tasar     04:23:21               
Tasar     04:32:20               
Tasar     04:37:36               
Tasar     04:43:05               

So all the Icons beat all the Tasars on the water.

Now lets look at averages.
If we average the corrected times for the Icons we get 04:20:00, and for the Tasars 04:25:47. If we average the corrected times of the first three Tasars we get 04:19:23.

As Grf says, I think that kind of decides it, and it demonstrates how easily our perceptions can trick us as to what is really going on...

Edited by JimC - 01 Sep 14 at 12:10pm
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Punky View Drop Down
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Posts: 90 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Punky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 9:56am
The Tasar is a fast boat in a breeze and the Icon's brief was to have Tasar-esque performance in those conditions and Phantom-esque performance in the light stuff.  So yes, in an individual breezy race you will not beat one over the water by much, but over a season of all weathers the Icon definitely needs a lower handicap than a Tasar. 
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