The Tasar v the Icon

Icon builders .....

No not the official announcement - you will have to wait for that.  But a bit of clarity maybe...

Cirrus developed and owns Icon and has the simple strategy of working with other organisations to 1) Build 2) Market/distribute the boat.  We are in that respect little different to some of the much larger suppliers ... and we do sell Icons in limited numbers in the UK / Ireland even if we were/are really looking for professional distributors. We believe local representation by people who race the boat themselves and can enthuse about the boat is the way forward for Icon.  I wish, and we are after, more local based enthusiasts both owners and commercially involved ones. 

It might even help move the bulk of this 'debate' off the keyboard and onto the water where it really belongs ...

The agreement with Devoti had various limitations and obligations on both parties and we are not going to discuss them here in any detail whatsoever !  However it is relevent to state that there were/are geographic restictions and various other commercial clauses ... These were intended to protect the long term investment of both parties whatever happens and are very common in such things. 

Cirrus has recently reached agreement with another builder that we believe will be truly excellent  for the class.   BTW Devoti are not excluded from continuing to produce and market Icons destined for continental Europe under the effective working agreement - We are just as happy to collect royalties in the future as in the past if they are as happy to build and actively market the boat in the future.    

From Jan 2015 Cirrus will however exclusively source hulls from the new builder..  We are fully involved with the productionising process with these people -  just as we were with Devoti some time back.    The hulls they will supply to us in 2015 and beyond (in common with the new builders own distribution here) will be as light, well built and durable as the original UK built hulls that still set the standard.   The company and management are highly proactive and are as committed to working constructively with us and alongside us here as they are in their other other overseas  markets.

They say that August is a poor time to make any key announcements .... but it just worked out to be 'then' for us on this particular occasion.  Doh !

Mike L.

PS - Pursuits / personal handicaps ... If you don't like them don't enter is the simple answer.  However at BSC they have the highest level of support of any form of racing run.  Not for the purists possibly ...  But we want new people into racing surely ?  The 'Wednesday evening occasionals' should be nurtured along as the potential regular racers of tomorrow and not constantly told 'your races' are not really 'the real thing' imo.   If racing format changes get more people on the water and involved what on earth is the objection ?   Do we really want to race in diminishing fleets because there is no 'feeder' route  or race in thinning fleets.  Give them what  they value and then find out what more they want ...  Or at least try and stop knocking a form of racing others like.

I would devote one Sunday PM race EACH moth to personal handicap racing as well ....  might be good to mix up the various fleet cliques with the true 'occasionals' even more often - imo  it would probably do both a lot of good ! 

   


Edited by blaze720 - 30 Jul 14 at 12:08pm

Burghfield SC had a very successful personal handicap pursuit race for wednesday evenings when I was a member (back in the 90s) - which updated handicaps each week.  if you "over-achieved" one week then you started 30 seconds later the following week.  It appears to be still running - details HERE

I have run similar events for our racing beginners and they were also very successful - everybody finishing in a tight bunch (tricky for the OOD though ;-))

Originally posted by iiitick I do worry however that said mad Quba woman  may enter one of our personal handicap pursuit races, her personal handicap/boat handicap could produce an unfortunate result.

I assume you mean unfortunate in that she may win ?

What's wrong with that ? 

It's a personal h/c and it means she - to use Marke's term -"over achieved".   Next time, she'll not be given such generous personal h/c.  

I believe personal h/c club racing is very encouraging for novices.  The best format is pursuit racing. 

If needed, one's personal h/c can be changed weekly.   Hot shots and novices all in with a chance of the chocolates.   Very inclusive and just what GRF advocates.  

The trouble is that when arriving at local boat handicaps it becomes very personal. The most boats we ever have racing is about 22 but regular active sailors is about 14 - 16. If we help out our Phantom sailors by adding ten points it would offend our Supernova sailors. If we penalised Byte because two of them win all the time it would upset the two who do not. The lady with the Quba is rather given to emotion and if it was suggested that it was the boat PY that was assisting her rather than her own skill she may have to be restrained! 

Originally posted by iGRF There is an easy solution to it, I don't know how many times it has to be presented to 'them' but if it were, and the formula open to scrutiny then there could be no adverse comments

Marke,  who has already fessed up he works in stats, wrote this yesterday:

I would support a regression analysis for EN analysis - probably Dan's rather than Peaky's as you need some sort of "design goodness factor" to deal with target the design was aimed at. This would be easier for both developers and the RYA.  Remember also that this would not have been very different for the EN set for the Icon.

I'm assuming Dan's technical analysis is the type of formula you want adopted ?   Marke's comment above states the EN is about right when it's calculated.    Would you now accept the Icon's EN is the correct starting point ?