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The Tasar v the Icon |
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Rupert 
Really should get out more 
Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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 Topic: The Tasar v the IconPosted: 29 Jul 14 at 4:18pm |
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What I took from the data was the enormous spread of handicaps for one person in one boat. Just shows how much data is needed to produce figures which are going to be reliable. All the more reason for ALL clubs to send in returns.
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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kneewrecker
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Joined: 09 Apr 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1586 |
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Posted: 29 Jul 14 at 4:21pm |
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So in summary, if there's one thing more restrictive to new boat sales than a crap handicap, it's the folks who sail them and market them moaning about a crap handicap.
The RYA are very approachable and willing to work with classes- albeit the system is for clubs, not classes.
Edited by kneewrecker - 29 Jul 14 at 4:24pm |
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iiitick
Far too distracted from work 
Joined: 04 Jun 14 Location: gb Online Status: Offline Posts: 478 |
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Posted: 29 Jul 14 at 4:26pm |
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Earlier on I moaned about the PY awarded to the RS Quba, can I speak secretly to the RYA without said Quba owner knowing? She is a viscous woman and my testicles are precious to me.
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iGRF
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Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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Posted: 29 Jul 14 at 4:31pm |
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Not only is it data from a puddle, but it's data from a 'top sailor' which makes it worse for the rest of humanity, another clear indicator how f**ked up the system is.
That one set of selfish individuals ruin the chances of a boat for the rest of the world. I don't quite understand how you can all be so stupid not to see what you're doing here. This is the elitist bit that puts people off and I bet they strut up to that prize table like the cats got the cream. Yet put them out on the Ocean with a mile beat and a couple of beaten up club contenders if they even manage to get them off the beach... FFS you can't write this stuff never mind make it up. |
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boatshed
Far too distracted from work
Joined: 12 Apr 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 457 |
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Posted: 29 Jul 14 at 4:32pm |
Look at the team's 'over achievement' data for the other classes. It averages at 1.8%. This team is good, as Marke noted, and I would expect the same for the Icon. Over achieving by 4.6% in the Icon, over a long series of races, demonstrates to me that their local h/c of 978 is generous. Anyhow, there are very few Icons out there and this is the best data to date. If I were an Icon owner, I would be happy with a marketing pitch of "quicker than a Merlin" |
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Steve
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kneewrecker
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Joined: 09 Apr 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1586 |
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Posted: 29 Jul 14 at 4:38pm |
too true- and for an admittedly incredible well built craft (talking winders here) it's still clinker styled (flow dynamics must be a great thesis for a Southampton grad) with a neckerchief for a kite... and far too much string to sail it properly, and too many accountants in the fleet, not to mention that crazy hoop thing... The Icon should dick all over this boat in every single way when it comes to marketing. (Except maybe the fleet racing thing, and the good camaraderie thing, and the generous handicap thing and the 'there's not a cat's chance in hell of racing Grumpf in one at an open meeting' thing...)
Edited by kneewrecker - 29 Jul 14 at 4:39pm |
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iGRF
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Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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Posted: 29 Jul 14 at 4:48pm |
Except it's not physically quicker than a Merlin. It's quicker than a merlin upwind It's quicker than a Merlin on a tight 2 sail reach It's slower than a Merlin Downwind on kiteable reaches Which tells you in circumstances where they can't use their kites, (i.e. in water surrounded by trees and odd courses inland) then Merlins and Hornets will be beaten by it. |
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marke
Far too distracted from work
Joined: 16 Jun 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 211 |
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Posted: 29 Jul 14 at 4:52pm |
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Our experience is different. On a tight kite reach on open water the Icon is quicker at pretty much all wind speeds. On broad kite reaches the Merlin will win in the lighter and Icon will win by a little bit in windier. On a run Merlin generally will win but not by much when its windy unless its a long leg against the tide.
That one set of selfish individuals ruin the chances of a boat for the rest of the world. I don't quite understand how you can all be so stupid not to see what you're doing here. This is the elitist bit that puts people off and I bet they strut up to that prize table like the cats got the cream. Yet put them out on the Ocean with a mile beat and a couple of beaten up club contenders if they even manage to get them off the beach... I'm struggling a bit to understand this Graeme - the corollary seems to be that we should only allow beginners racing on major oceans to set the EN. I'll stress again that not many people would classify Torbay or the Exe Estuary as "puddles" - I certainly wouldn't like to swim across them. Edited by marke - 29 Jul 14 at 4:58pm |
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boatshed
Far too distracted from work
Joined: 12 Apr 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 457 |
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Posted: 29 Jul 14 at 4:53pm |
It's not a puddle. Yes, the sailors are a good team in a new boat but racing against other, equally good teams in good boats. In the words of Marke, they "over achieved" on the handicap and appeared to have often sailed it faster than it's EN This is the best evidence posted to date about the Icon's PY potential. It may be true that many future Icon racers will under achieve, in which case the PY system will adjust and adjust quite quickly. If you, personally, cannot sail a boat to it's handicap, you 'under achieve'. With a new boat, this isn't the boat's fault. It's the crew's ability. You either get better or get your club to give you a 'personal handicap' much like golf. In a way, I think personal handicaps are a good way of encouraging newbies to club racing. |
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Steve
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tgruitt
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Joined: 02 Dec 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2479 |
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Posted: 29 Jul 14 at 4:56pm |
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Don't worry GRF, I've been doing my bit to get the handicap down. I've been sailing it off 1003 and have been beaten by a Merlin.
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Needs to sail more...
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