Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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List classes of boat for sale |
The Tasar v the Icon |
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Medway Maniac ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 May 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2788 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 19 Jul 14 at 7:30pm |
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Any una-rigged singlehander is going to run into helm balance problems once you add a jib. From the hull perspective, though, the Contender would be a good candidate. Indeed it was tried back in the 70's/80's, but the low hounds meant a very small, short-luffed jib. Add an Icon rig instead, stepped further aft, 3k kite and a lightweight crew and you'd have a nice boat, I reckon. But it might just be simpler to buy a V3k! Jim, you often remark disparagingly about older hull designs, but provided a hull is fair and doesn't induce premature flow separation, there is no such thing as a bad hull. It just depends on what you want it to do. I can think of few hulls worse than, say, an RS800 in light airs, for example, but those are not the conditions for which people buy it. More modern hulls tend to be aimed more at planing performance, but we don't actually spend that much of our sailing planing as a percentage of time... Which is maybe why the Laser and Scorpion have PY's significantly lower than their basic data of length/beam/weight might suggest, and they achieve that without being stupidly tippy - the usual 'easy' route to higher performance.
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iiitick ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 04 Jun 14 Location: gb Online Status: Offline Posts: 478 |
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When be bought our Tasar about ten years ago it was properly calibrated with all the 'red dots' in place. We thought, 'Ha! just read the manual, set it to the dots and away we go. No, not that simple. To get performance you have to concentrate and observe, particularly on a lake. When you get it right they fly. Rumor has it that upwind planing is possible and it is if you just knock it off a bit, not the best idea when lake sailing. On a decent windy reach we could hold a 300 though. Tasars are really great boats.
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Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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If ever a boat appears to need to be sailed upright, the Phantom is it. I think this might be one of the reasons why top Phantom sailors seem to be able to sail the boat so much faster than the rest.
From the perspective of GRF's comment, the Phantom would be a poor choice for a doublehander, I think. Mind, I'm struggling to think of a good choice for a singlehander conversion. |
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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As a general observation that's true of course, and wasn't it you who pointed out that the dynamics of a V hull with 5 degree deadrise sailed with 5 degrees heel might be quite similar to those of a flat floored hull sailed bolt upright? But in the specific case of the wide low deadrise stern Phantom hull - maybe not! Heel tolerance has certainly got to be a major consideration for the designer of a one design. |
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Chris 249 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
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I know some designers who reckon that some of the advances of the newer hull designs can rely on them being sailed upright, whereas the older hulls can sometimes tolerate more heel. Therefore a less expert crew can do better on an older-style hull in some situations. S'pose that's one reason????
Edited by Chris 249 - 19 Jul 14 at 12:02pm |
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dogslife ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: 17 Feb 12 Online Status: Offline Posts: 58 |
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Having taken part in 3 Tasar Championships (UK Nationals, Europeans & Worlds) in the mid 80's and having spent many happy hours chatting to Charlie McKee (9 times Tasar World Champ & current US Sailing High Performance Director - http://www.sailracingmagazine.com/features/charlie-mckee-us-sailing-high-performance-director) I well remember how important he felt kicker tension was when it came to making Tasars go quickly, especially upwind. So much so, he used to get Becky (his crew at the time) to continually play the kicker & the jib.
Without question Tasars are very technical boats to sail and if you get it right they're an absolute joy, but if you can't get your head around what you should be doing with the various controls I would accept that they can become a bit frustrating.......... In addition to the typical Enterprise type controls, not only do you have the 'spanner' and the jib stick to master, but you also have shroud runners (to rake the mast forward on the run), both mainsheet & mainsheet traveller to play going upwind & a raking daggerboard to control. There's loads of info on the CA site - http://www.tasar.org/racing-a-sailing |
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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But why on earth would you want to use a 1971 hull design when so much was learned in the 70s and 80s? |
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iGRF ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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3)Convert a Phantom, with a jib, wingwang kite trap.... two normal sized people = one phantom sailor, rock n roll!
Edited by iGRF - 18 Jul 14 at 9:08pm |
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Null ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 May 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 745 |
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Well you got a couple of options then buddy.
1) Import something like an MG14 from Australia and modify it to meet your criteria (fit centre board) 2) Buy an ex prototype or demo Icon and make your own boat that works! An Icon with a swinging kite and trapeze. If there was much of a market for this type of boat the Alto would of sold in 'some' volume, the 4000, Buzz, Iso etc. would be around properly.
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iGRF ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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Er because that's all there is? ![]() |
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