200 kicker position

   I bought a second hand suit of sails for £100 for club sailing when it's blowing old boots.  It doesn't harm us too because when it's that windy it is more about the way you sail the boat.  Upwind, there is a groove you can get into with 2s, but it's probably took us 8 or 9 years to find it.

At the end of the day, it is a fully battened main and it will never blade like a soft sail.  The standard settings are perfectly OK.  Use them and work on the technique.  If there's a magic answer, it passed me by a long time ago.  

Where abouts are you based?

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jaydub Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 06 Jan 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 267	Post Options Post Reply Quote jaydub Report Post Quote Reply Topic: 200 kicker position Posted: 10 Jun 14 at 7:11pm
	I bought a second hand suit of sails for £100 for club sailing when it's blowing old boots. It doesn't harm us too because when it's that windy it is more about the way you sail the boat. Upwind, there is a groove you can get into with 2s, but it's probably took us 8 or 9 years to find it. At the end of the day, it is a fully battened main and it will never blade like a soft sail. The standard settings are perfectly OK. Use them and work on the technique. If there's a magic answer, it passed me by a long time ago. Where abouts are you based?

transient Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 21 Aug 12 Online Status: Offline Posts: 715	Post Options Post Reply Quote transient Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 10 Jun 14 at 5:27pm
	I have a reasonably new main and jib you can borrow if you're anywhere near 1066 country.

piglet Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 04 Jan 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 514	Post Options Post Reply Quote piglet Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 10 Jun 14 at 4:59pm
	Agree, 2 boat tuning would be good. It might also be useful to try a different sail on our set-up. Conventional wisdom is that the mains don't vary or stretch a lot, but it would be good to eliminate any doubt, it is getting on a bit. Thanks for the measurement Jaydub, sounds like that's the factory setting. This coming Sunday doesn't look like being a kicker sort of day

transient Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 21 Aug 12 Online Status: Offline Posts: 715	Post Options Post Reply Quote transient Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 10 Jun 14 at 11:39am
	Is there another 200 at your club. Some 2 boat training/setting up might isolate the problem, swap boats half way through the session.

jaydub Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 06 Jan 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 267	Post Options Post Reply Quote jaydub Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 09 Jun 14 at 10:57pm
	Just measured mine. It's about 388mm from the centre of the take off point measured from the end of the bearing surface on the inner end of the boom, so in the same ball park as both your's and Transient's. It's plenty powerful enough where it is; I wouldn't move it any further back.

jaydub Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 06 Jan 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 267	Post Options Post Reply Quote jaydub Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 09 Jun 14 at 12:38pm
	At 22.5 stone, you don't want 160mm. Go back to 135mm or even move to 130. We sail with one hole showing on the track unless we're overpowered and then we move it back. Jib sheet lightly eased in not much wind, but pull it in as soon as there is sufficient wind to propely fill the sails. We're 4:1 on the Cunningham. Rig tension set at 26 on a Loos gauge when it's light and 28 when it's windy. Not sure how that converts to pounds without checking the meter and converting. Forgot to measure the kicker take off point yesterday, but the boat is in the garage so will try and check in the next day or two.

Steve411 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 09 Sep 08 Location: Cheddar, Somerset, England Online Status: Offline Posts: 705	Post Options Post Reply Quote Steve411 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 09 Jun 14 at 11:39am
	You set the slot by how the jib luff telltales react. When you luff up, all the windward telltales (top, middle and bottom) should lift together. If the top telltales lifts first, you have insufficient leech tension (moves the cars forward a bit). If the bottom telltale lifts first, too much leech tension and a closed slot, so either move cars back or ease sheet tension.
	Steve B RS300 411 RS300 page

piglet Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 04 Jan 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 514	Post Options Post Reply Quote piglet Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 09 Jun 14 at 10:23am
	Thanks for your support Jaydub. Our set up was 395/135, 21' 8", 300Lb Will have to check the foot position. Deflection is now 160 but I can't say we have noticed much of a difference. Our combined weight is shamefully around 22.5 and we are not Olympic athletes! I re-measured the kicker from the back of mast and got 438-440 depending on boom height That's 95mm, almost 4" less than our training partners 535mm. In the contenders we have the kicker way back on the boom to maximise leverage, and I can still get across OK when in front of the tower. Are you 4:1 or 8:1 on the Cunningham? Another issue that could be indirectly related is how to set the jib slot when you can't see the slot? If we are over sheeting the jib and closing the top that will cause further backwinding on the main. Would black sailtape on the jib leech be visible enough through the main? Can the crew see the slot by leaning right forward and looking round the front of the mast? Our cars are right back. Thanks again, all helpful

jaydub Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 06 Jan 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 267	Post Options Post Reply Quote jaydub Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 06 Jun 14 at 3:13pm
	I'm struggling to explain why your mast should be too straight from what you are saying. With a 16:1 kicker, I tend not to fully pull it on when it's aboslutely honking. It's easier to keep the boat on it's feet if you give the air more opportunity to escape out of the leech. I pull it on harder when it's not survival conditiions, but never to the extent that my hand hurts. Spreader settings are dependent on all up crew weight, but we sail off fairly standard settings - 395mm length; 135 deflection @ 21.5 stone. I used the same settings on our previous late 2004 vintage boat. I've never heard of anybody using anything like as much as 160, so would suggest yiou revert back. What's your mast rake set at? 21' 8.5" with one hole showing at the mast foot is pretty standard. Worth trying more rake if you are really struggling. I'll try and remember to measure my boom take off measurement for you on Sunday. I don't believe there is anything in the rules to stop you sliding it further back, but it will encroach on crew space and encourage more mast bend in intermediate conditions, which may not be a good thing.

piglet Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 04 Jan 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 514	Post Options Post Reply Quote piglet Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 06 Jun 14 at 2:27pm
	JimC, I have sought clarification on the legallity of this, will report back. Jaydub, this is a 2005 and has 16:1 cascade, which I have replaced with all Dyneema & BB stock. There is plenty of scope at both limits of travel. What stops it going any more is my lack of physical strength and my reluctance to rip the cleats off the thwart. I tried 8:1 cascade on the downhaul but couldn't get it to work round all the clutter & TackTick bracket so reverted to 4:1. I havent yet seen anyone using a true 8:1 ,though I'm sure some are. Again what stops the downhaul is that it just won't go anymore. Outhaul goes bar tight except in waves. Spreaders were standard setup (135 deflection?) and are now 160. Can't remember the length. On a recent traing session video it was clear that our mast was too straight and luff too full compared with another 200.